This is true as I also was so upset with my beloved rogue that I made a new one in sin till I knew the spec well enough to make my main change specs. The whole look and play style 
please donāt make me remember it. lol I felt like I failed as a rogue.
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Gouge, bleeds, poisons, and shiv should be for all rogue specs. And disarming traps. Itās simple basic tools for our class.
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I miss the old mace-stun Sub spec. Nothing like doing 2v1 Arenas and coming out on top. Then they removed the passive effects for weapons and we just used fist weapons instead. That wasnāt around for long, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.
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Looks like youāre still fighting the good fight my man!
Iāll add to this old convo that removing the combo points from the target is why we got our CC nerfed.
Before wod our cc kit was justified because the tradeoffs of target based combo point management allowed us to enjoy such a large kit.
Wod illustrates why we lost base abilities because it made the class way too strong; much like cata rogue being near idiot proof wod was almost impossible not to get glad if you bothered to play sub in cata or combat in wod for the obvious reasons.
Tie in all the points you illustrated above and here we are.
I donāt think blizzard will ever let us have our class back, way too many dk mains rerolled rogue once combo point management was eliminated.
Because those people like mindless junk; guys like you and I who enjoy depth are out in the cold.
TBC is coming shoegazer, I hope to see you there!
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Itās good to see all of you hold Sub in such high regard. I miss the old Sub and till this day still play what ever iteration of Subtlety they present us. Until I just canāt take the mindless grinding any longerā¦
I personally do not mind the Shadow theme but would not have felt cheapened if the original tool kit was kept. The current Sub rogue, although i have managed it, lacks in sustained DPS and is not rewarding if you manage the burst window correctly. The spec is under-tuned and Backstab might as well be called rarely used stab in raiding.
In WoD you had the ability to increase your bleed and burst damage with good resource management and timing which rewarded your sustain and burst windows perfectly IMO. With the pruning to our tool kit and the removal of those buffs turned Sub into a hollow 2 button spec. (nightblade macro symbols to dance and shadow strike to every evis rinse and repeat)ā¦ So much depthā¦ My brain hurts with boredom.
I agree the previous iteration needs to return with the 1m dance window that buffed your second evis baseline.
I don;t feel the return of poisons is going to make much difference as you will have either a single target xdamage and or yDoT with the 15% scale with Symbols and the 20% scale with Dark Shadows every 30 s that already feels overpowered on paper and takes away from the current shadowstrike to eviscerate focus.
I rather gouge, prep, premed, BoS, SnD, maybe even dirty deeds makes it return to sub. it really needs more of a nitch then control. I mean how many of us are being asked to raid because we have good control? PvP sure but the spec is to predictable and easily countered.
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From what the rogue was to its present day thing called rogue they really just replaced the class.
What if thet just gave us a 4th 5th And 6th talent grid spec option and those would have the old MoP versions of Assassination, Combat and subtlety. Those could be then just scaled to the new level cap damage and health pools. They could even name the new ones something different because the former came first. Almost forgot the old MoP versions would require combo points stack on the target instead of the player, this would make these builds more exclusive and interesting because they emphasize management of resources like valuable combo points.
Doing this would make many people happy, I would be a lot more interested in bfa if my class wasnāt so boring and gimmicky, I donāt think anyone at Blizzard plays a rogue and itās even less likely that they would visit this forum.
i just want they add shadowtheme as an optional tool and dont just focus on sub as pvpā¦ and rework pve aspect as wellā¦cause is the less specs playing in the game atm, cause they failed after zul, they made the specs that you need to play perfectly to be good, garbage so blizzard is very incoherent when comes to tunes and nerfs, they nerf the specs cause one boss had less hp than his adds and sub in that moment was the king of priority targets dpsā¦ cause you can ask dratnos to do good dmg as sub(before zul nerf) you need to play perfectly pretty muchā¦
The problem with the Shadow Magic theme is that they forced it on every Subtlety Rogue, out of nowhere, when many of us have been playing a character for 12+ years that didnāt have that theme.
I want it completely gone from my character.
The only way it would ever be acceptable is if itās a cosmetic glyph that gives the player a choice to opt in.
However from a design perspective, I still donāt think that works. I think a key point that many are missing in this thread is that the gameplay and the theme are NOT separate. They didnāt come up with these things separately, and decide they liked both of them, so both would be implemented. No, itās all part of the same vision.
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Yup, they built completely different class called it a rogue and deleted the real rogue class. Thatās why I dislike bfa so much. It wouldnāt be half as bad if I didnāt hate the class design.
Itās this same reasons why I got tired off by legion so much even wod with the combo points for kids and class pruning was at least acceptable in play.
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sub is really strong in SL
Please donāt bump 6 month old threads.