Shadowlands sub rogue FEEDBACK

To the first part… yeah? And? I’ve done exactly one season of rated PvP ever, and that was RBGs in S1 of this expansion specifically for the mog set. What about it?

Pally’s my forum alt, but you seem to lack an understanding of how these forums work.

I really do think you need to take a chill pill. You’re reading way too much into everything.

But I’ll humor you.


Random assortment of experience across all three specs since Cata. Mostly raided back in those days.

Are you wanting an actual discussion, or are you just wanting to shout down and “shame” people who you think you can bully into being quiet?

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Aye, it’s me.

It’s good to see you, but you have picked a dark time to check in.

This forum is overrun with clowns who are completely ignorant of our history as a class.


Nobody would have a problem if a new spec was created for these clowns to go play.

But Blizzard created this opposition and animosity by taking OUR SPEC and replacing it with THEIRS.

Don’t blame me for taking the obvious response to that injustice.


Over the last year, Activision Blizzard has started to invest more aggressively in the mobile game market. We’ve seen an early result of that effort with Call of Duty Mobile , but one of the company’s growth strategies, as Johnson discussed on the call, is “to build on King’s leadership position and extend our game console and PC franchises to mobile.”

The company has already announced Diablo Immortal for mobile devices. We can’t rule out the possibility of Overwatch making a debut on mobile at some point. Other top competitive shooters ( Fortnite and PUBG ) have already released mobile versions. Activision Blizzard has some of the top games in the industry, so it appears that the company is looking to eventually release mobile versions of some, if not all, of its most popular franchises.

We’re all doomed. :skull:


Honestly blizz needs to abandon 3 melee specs like hunters abandon 3 range specs.

The only time blizz was creative enough, and i would say brilliant, to have three distinctive niches for rogue is when they had sub shuriken storm buffing evis but they f*cked that all away so we could just stack priest instead of rogues. But honestly the AoE funneled into priority target concept being erased was a huge oversight for the design team…this concept could of been expanded to other classes and encounters could of been designed around a need for this capability and traditional aoe building complexity for raid, 5man teams.

At this point though just have Assassin/Combat keep their niche and have sub overhauled to a single target range…unfortunately I predict another blunder and blizzard struggling to create a viable niche for all three specs

I like the purple shadow spellblade… I’m excited to see how they refine the spec in Shadowlands. Even if it isn’t the weird shadow magician it is now, I’m sure it’ll be something I can keep with and enjoy.

But I know… paying Blizz my subscription fee and playing this “gutted” spec is most likely personally offending somebody in this forum >_>


Played rogue during WoTLK, heroic raided as one during the last tier of MoP. IMO, the Legion remake was a heavy downgrade, and I felt likewise for most melees. Sub’s animations are… ugh. Became too flamboyant, too magical for a ninja. The reverse of ret paladin, who went full metallic all of a sudden, and less flashy. And the heavy dependency on Shadow Dance atm is kinda equal to the dependency of destro on chaos bolts. It is bad design, because it reduces the spec to a one-trick pony: it has to perform too well in that specific segment - bursting, for sub and destro -, otherwise it is trash.


O yeah,
Good day sir

Not gonna lie, I never liked Shadowdance, ever. If anything it should be a 5-10 min cd. Just my two cents.
I agree with you on much though. Blizzard broke sub bad. Ive been sub since vanilla but felt Cata was where I truly loved how the spec played. I tend to play different style than most but I really loved the control I had in Cata. Was just so smooth.

The 1min CD is critical to the way Shadow Dance should be tuned and the overall pacing of the spec.

The 1min CD is perfect for allowing it to be impactful and exciting, allows for Find Weakness to be tuned for big burst that sometimes comes from Dance and sometimes comes from Vanish or a raw opener from Stealth, and offers outstanding variation between the classic Rogue toolkit and gameplay for most of that minute vs. that exciting moment of being able to burst, control, and land clutch Saps.

The 1min CD also works really well with the 2min CD of PvP trinkets and the general pacing of major defensive cooldowns, so that you can create windows to score a big bursty kill if you play well but you will fall behind if you use Dance badly or get peeled on it.

  • remove shadowstrike, bring back ambush in its place
  • dance reverted to 1 charge / 1 min cd
  • gouge OR garrote return
  • make backstab do atleast a little damage?

bam. sub is back to being MOP levels of fun again god d


By reverting Dance to 1 charge / 1 min CD and NO COOLDOWN REDUCTION they can buff Find Weakness so that backstab becomes bursty in Find Weakness windows

This is essential because it ties or burst damage to our primary mechanic, Stealth, and encourages us to actually play like a sneaky Rogue that goes for restealths instead of just running at people and doing a rotation like other melees

Gouge is mandatory. We learned this ability at level 6 originally, it’s one of the most iconic Rogue abilities of all time. Personally it was always my “4” keybind and now there is just this massive gaping hole in my action bar. I could never bind another button in that place, that’s where Gouge goes.

As for Garrote, there is no reason it couldn’t return, even with Gouge, once the necessary changes to Shadow Dance are made

WotLK, Cata, MoP, and WoD were all incredibly fun iterations of Subtlety. And balanced too. It’s not difficult to fix this mess and Blizzard doesn’t need to do anything particularly creative. There is a formula that worked, let’s go back to it.


Rogues need to ‘remember’ how to disarm traps as well.


stop with the logic!


Scrap dance in its current iteration and make it a finisher that lets you restealth. Modify ambush/ garrote pvp/pve damage accordingly around this.

This would solve a lot of survivability issues along with making dps combos interesting vrs the mongoloid burst window smash everything approach

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Or, we could revert the spec back to it’s pre Legion iteration, it’s natural state. I want my abilities back. I want all my old animations and sounds back. Shoe isn’t the only longtime rogue here who prefers the old Sub spec.


I liked sub before dance as well

the legion rework wasn’t that bad problem removing the tool kits, like potions, gouge, garrote, for pvp ofc blizzard won’t give it all back but at least pick choose give and shadow dance is not the issue either the problem when they don’t add to sub rogue mechanics what they need more option like the shadow theme should be an OPTION, in all cases sub rogue use to have to execute, i was the most used talent aka dirty deeds the 2 other specs just specs into sub just to have the execute for PVP in wtlk cause to reduce the cost of ability like garrote and cheap shot by 10 energy each but this was in tbc -wtlk.

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Which sub build did you like before WotLK? I am curious.

From a PvE perspective 1st iteration TotT and group stacking hunter/rogue.