I just hope enough blue gear drops in quests and world quests to keep casuals playing. Although not the primary reason, one thing that drove me away from raiding early on was the lack of loot. Especially in Everquest 1 where the raid groups were 72 man and only 2 to 4 pcs of loot dropped, I HATED IT. If there was a garantee of loot each time I put time in difficult content I prolly wouldve raided longer. As it is, it just trained me to be content with solo rates of progression.
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Itâs probably also an incentive to be involved more in weekly events since you wonât out outgear them as quickly.
Enjoy getting gear for the exact same slot as your one Legendary time and again.
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Sounds like SL is going to just stretch the timed played metric even more.
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Because what else is there to do? Clear the raid once or twice then unsub until next patch?
Surprising how many players want WoD back so they can have loads of time to play other games.
Work on achievements?
Play alts?
Do WQ or dailies (whatever incarnation they have in SL)?
PvP?
Help friends with w/e?
Why canât my item just be my item without a secondary task to grind throughout the entire expansion? It seemed to work from vanilla - Cata when valor upgrades didnât exist.
Ironically valor upgrades DID exist in WoD lol.
Aw, your poor feelings 
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Blizzard: weâre going to reduce the overall power of loot items a raid can get so when loot does drop it never feels like you got screwed over by not getting a max forge
also Blizzard: weâre also reducing the amount of loot dropping in general to compensate
it reminds me of the time they fixed the bug with divine purpose early in bfa then nerfed our overall damage to compensate
If theyâre reducing loot drops, they should bring back Master Loot for guild groups.
I really dislike the idea of reduced loot drop. Itâs already hard enough to get what you want.
hush up, stop trying to ruin the game
this is a good change
Again, so we want to just be done with the tier after a month.
Except for BT, ICC, and SoO. When players begged for anything relevant to do.
This is true.
Well⌠A lot of elite players worked tirelessly for years to get titanforging removed, somehow imagining the price would only be paid by scrubs who were getting upgrades they didnât deserve.
I think less gear from raids is partly a result of nostalgia on the devsâ part for an earlier, simpler time when getting little to no loot was common. Because it was common back then, it was a good thing. That and this will result in more loot battles between players. They seem to like situations where players are pitted against each other. And guilds were strong back then, surely it had something to do with low drop rates and loot battles. /s
Donât remember any of that for BT.
Wait, are you saying people made the same complaints during ICC (no valor upgrades) as SoO (4/4 valor upgrades)?
So there is no difference and it didnât help?
Or maybe valor upgrades had nothing to do with it and it was more the final tiers lasting for over a year??
WoD and HFC had 4/4 valor upgrades too by the way.
Funny. I remember clearing KJ and Mother for months. No sword, no shoulders. Nothing else available to replace them.
Wow subs were cyclical long before the raid tiers lasting a year. These changes bring us back to raid or die.
HFC was actually good.
Valor upgrades existed in the 2 expansions you are complaining about lol.
They have nothing to do with raid or die.
That is avoided more through torghast, mythic+, and world content gear.
if mythic+ loot stays the same what the heck reason is there to raid when you can fully kit out from mythic+ in a couple of days if you spam? bragging rights? something needs to be done.
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Iâm not complaining about expansions. Every one has had good points and bad points.
Iâm complaining about loot just being loot. It kills any meaningful character progression a month into the tier. Dungeons/ keys go back to being useless for mythic raiders after the first week. They become useless to heroic raiders after the first month.
If the raid piece does not drop, you are sol, because there is no other comparable option to replace it. Log on next reset and hope for a cache item or better rng.
But hey, as long as players get to be âdoneâ for the week or tier its fine. Because that is how I tell the game is good, how quickly I can log off.
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people have been crying about MUH BIS for so long now that itâs no surprise blizz is doing this. i liked things that are little bonuses you could get too. made me do WQ and things that i might not otherwise do. like doing a ring WQ and getting a TF was nice. 
thatâs assuming it wasnât a mcforge. those were no fun.
Valor upgrades donât change any of that thoughâŚ
It doesnât magically make other items better when everything is upgradable.
Itâs just a shifter on the item level, that applies to everything.
In MoP did you start using heroic dungeon gear while in SoO because of valor or something??
No? You just faceroll was a few heroics every week for valor to upgrade your raid gear?
Mythic+ is the alternative gear system you are describing not valor.
iâd much rather do heroics to get valor to upgrade my stuff than being stuck doing mythic+ which is awful in itâs current form. vomits