Shadowlands Feral Concerns and Problems

Any new feral update in beta?

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After the leggos came in, and the conduits it doesnt look to be terrible.
Still lacking group utility while the 2 favorite specs have all of it… feelsbadman.
A form of LotP or mark of the wild would be something useful if they would just let it happen.

I usually run a class that I can tank, heal and dps on… unless bear gets a little love I may be going monk this time around.
Hate to leave my feral on ice, but at least until I get my main set up, it would have to sit out.

Unless… ya know, Blizz decides to listen to the bear folks out here asking for improvements.

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If you mean recently… updates to the beta generally happen on Wednesdays so this question is probably best asked tomorrow.

You know you can visit the druid beta forum right?

Give Kyrian a go. It feels pretty good to play with on the Beta. The ability aligns perfectly with the hunter kyrian ability and let’s both of you do insane damage.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/267

Loving the changes to Berserk. I think we can check off one from the OP’s list. Do note that the new baseline Berserk no longer has the reduced energy costs (that is in the talent) but you will get 3 combo points when you crit during it - Something to mention there; I still think having a 6th combo point (but having our abilities still cost a maximum of 5 points) would be good for those numerous issues where you overcap on combo points during high crit moments because it devalues crit.

Shred and Rake deal 60% increased damage while stealthed (or during Berserk).

Not sure what he means in the post about receiving 2 combo points after, say, a Ferocious Bite because I am only receiving one.
Overall good changes.

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I actually like this idea a lot. Too bad this forum is a graveyard for good ideas. I will drop this in the suggestion window in beta.

That is very sad :frowning:

Feral just needs a rework, They need something unique they need something else like a 20 second odd CD Damage ability which is apart of the rotation.

Current rotation is getting old. Utiulity is all over the place with no real unique style, just balance druid but worse.

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The new berserk effects are tied to leveling (level 52 and 58 i think for the 3cp shred crits and the 2cp refunds on 5cp finishers).

When Berserk is up shred non crit gives 2cp and shred crit gives 3cp in addition do dealing extra damage. Brutal Slash despite costing less still gives 1cp non crit, 2cp crit.

At the moment this causes the gameplay of:
Using only shred as generator since it deals more damage than brutal slash (stealth + cp bonus).
Since there is a lack of energy its basically:

  1. wait for clearcasting then push shred
  2. push your finisher (usually ferocious bite) if it crits
  3. Rake/BrS/Moonfire if you need the 5th CP.
    if you go from 2cp to 4cp (shred non crit), then you use empowered rake.
    There’s pretty much no ability to proc bloodtalons as you are only casting shred/rake+finisher and you don’t have the energy to cast anything else, you’re basically sacking a 3rd finisher for 30% on two finishers so you would just cast the 3rd finisher.
    night fae ability is one trigger to get your energy back up + restore bloodtalons stacks which makes it quite strong.
    Might have some 4cp finisher (rip/SR) play during berserk (still thinking about it).
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/facepalm Please tell me you’re being sarcastic.

Repeatedly testing Bloodtalons on the PTR
At present, I feel that this talent is just like Monk’s Windwalker gameplay.

There is no innovation at all, and the DPS benefit brought by the new Bloodtalons is not high
At least it feels like this to me now, the benefit is not high, and the DPS output is still not improved.
For the evaluation of this talent, I still feel that the removal is more practical

After the Berserk effect is swapped with Incarnation…
To be honest, maybe only Moment of Clarity can fully play its value
On the contrary, it is difficult for Bloodtalons to have better DPS output (in the burst of damage output, in this period of time)

The feedback is not good in operation. I seriously recommend that BZ redesign Druid directly.

I know I’m late to the party here (just started cruising the forums again, after a LONG break), but I tend to agree with the feeling that there’s a serious lack of feral love, and that Bliz has consistently taken away the things that made druids unique. In this case, I’m talking about the feral/guardian specs specifically, because in my opinion, guardian is almost as sadly unloved as feral.

Every other straight DPS class or spec has a way to pull from a distance. For us that used to be Faerie Fire. Gone.

Okay, what about survivability? Mobility? Utility? All either gone, or eclipsed by other classes. Even mages have more than us now.

If we’re talking about “depruning” and giving us something to make us a viable option to bring on a raid over a rogue (or any other dps spec), why not bring back the combined feral spec?

I know a lot of people will probably find exception to this, but that was a truly unique utility no other class really could claim. It WAS possible to play a cat feral and lead the dps charts, while filling in as an off-tank, or just popping in when the SHTF, and literally saving entire raids. And if you decided to focus on bear tanking, you could still easily pop into cat and pull respectable dps when the fights would allow for it, or you just wanted a different play style.

By splitting the two, Bliz made us mediocre DPS and mediocre tanks, with nothing to set either apart from any other DPS or Tank.

Just my two cents, but THAT ability, to shift forms depending on the needs of the situation, was what made us truly unique among the classes and viable options for raiding, arena, or any other kind of PvP.

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We have moonfire still. I don’t think rogue has a ranged pull either. The only other straight dps classes are all ranged (Mage, warlock, Hunter) so obviously they can pull from a distance. Let’s not start exaggerating.

Rogues have ranged pulls. Different for every spec but it’s
Assassin - Poisoned Knife
Sub: Shuriken Toss
Outlaw: Pistol Shot

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Okay that’s fair. Had a brain fart. Regardless, we still can pull from ranged using Moonfire.

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This is already easily possible in BfA (and will be even stronger in SL)… feral with guardian affinity or guardian with feral affinity.

Its just that 99% of ferals use the balance affinity and 99% of guardians use the resto affinity.

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Found an interesting video a few days ago where sloot discusses Feral with Guiltyasferal and Psybearslat for a grand total of 2 hours and 35 minutes.

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I am a Senior Game Designer. I specialize in Systems design (which includes things like class balance).

I have spent the last two weeks talking to people about the design flaws of feral, and the massive lack of attention it has verse boomkin. If you measure up, boomkin has armor in boomkin form, cannot be slept, and also has significantly more utility with things like deep roots, prickling thorns, and the big one fairy swarm. On top of this balance druid in a pvp sense also holds to the king of burst and rot damage over feral in pvp and feral in itself has no uniquely defining attribute to it.

After multiple weeks of talking to players (of which are some of the top in game) about the class, I am still unsure of what feral should get. The problem is very complicated, and is really subject to a few issues. What I am looking for is something that will make the class unique, but here are a few things i looked at.

  • PvP Talent or baseline hibernate can be used on humanoids (and moonkins are now a beast and are subject to hibernate and fear best (hunter)
    • This would enable the druid to play a more rogue like objective in rbgs.
  • a PvP talent that enabled feral to bite out of stealth, and shifted the stun over from rake to this bite.
  • a limited high uptime mortal strike (much like wind walker has) but I do not care for this idea as much as others
  • A “hunt” like feral baseline ability.
  • Undetectable stealth
  • A mechanic that enables feral to see footsteps with in 40 yards of sheathed people to get an idea of where they are.
  • Moving shroud from rogue to feral usable in rbgs.
  • Dire cat form, a permanent new form that replaces incarnation (moving incarnation to baseline or removing it)
  • Silence when rooted pvp talent
  • Moving deep roots over to pvp feral talents
  • Changing star surge from balance to balance moonbeam, and moonkin form to fairy swarm
  • Changing lunar inspiration (talent) to enable moonfire and sunfire in cat form.
  • A mechanic /ability that enables the feral druid to change team members into cat form for a very short period (king of the jungle rework) that has a very low cd, intended to directly challenge RMP/RMpala Comps by removing poly.
    • This effect could be done by adding a pvp talent that enables stampeding roar to cleanse charm (poly) effects.

All of these idea’s seemed interesting and I favor a few over the others, but to be honest I think feral needs to be touched significantly. here’s what I’d look at.

  • Converting Rip into a disease effect that is applied on a bite (removing rip as an ability from the game), naming it “rabies” which spreads itself to targets with in a specific range of an infected player as a sort of self-spreading dot.

  • Removing primal wrath and creating a talent “infectious diseases” which increases its base range to spread.

  • Removing stampeding roar (SR) from Guardian, Restoration, and Balance and setting it baseline to feral with a 30-45 second cool down to enable feral to obtain group specific utility.

  • Removing Feral affinity from balance, and balance affinity from feral and adding a new talent. These combinations of affinities do not mesh well together and are all around not practical. In order for them to be so, you’d have to do some things that wound fundamentally break the class like giving beam to feral, or removing stealth from boomkin’s with out feral affinity (to validate feral affinity).

  • Savage Roar is a good ability, and should not cost energy or combo points but should instead have a cooldown and lower bonus values (10%?)
    • Alternatively, savage roar can act as a reset (like preparation) that would reset the cooldown of Tigers fury, Stampeding Roar, and Berserk.

  • It would be amusing to see a second interrupt stack for feral and some sort of ability that increases its range to charge the target.

The following should definitely be done

  • Brutal slash should be single target and apply a healing debuff (30%)

  • Removing the damage bonus from saber tooth and increasing the duration of bleeds to 5 seconds after a bite.

  • Blood talons should be changed to reduce the duration of bleed effects 50% (to half its value) but deal the full damage. instead of its current iteration.

  • Feral frenzy should deal twice its damage over time effect and should be applied instantly (ie in one swipe), or should have a much lower cd (8-12 seconds).

  • [Rip and Tear] should be redesigned so that it applying a rip applies a rake (passive)

  • [King of the Jungle] Should be applied so that feral gain

  • Add fairy swarm to pvp talents.

  • Change ferocious bite so that it enables the druid to bite someone from stealth stunning them for 5 seconds and dealing a full bite damage. Making this a useable ability in stealth with a fairly low cd (30-45 seconds) would be ideal.

I know this seems like a big rework and it is but for the most part this is really corrections to issues and shifting around the specs damage instead of increasing it.

In general feral needs more utility.

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Leaving PvP aside for a moment, but we had this already in BFA when Sabertooth effectively made Rip’s duration infinite. While no one can doubt its effectiveness, (it was the top talent by a country mile for the entirety of the expac both in PvP and in raid) it made for perhaps the most boring iteration of Feral I’ve ever played. I want there to be room for error in the way I use my combo points. If the only correct answer to my combo point spending abilities is Bite that doesn’t make for particularly interesting gameplay. Especially for a spec that gets most of its nuance and complexity from managing bleed snapshots and pandemic timers.

These are all very interesting ideas, but a total rework is unrealistic. There are a couple small things that can be done to improve feral that can be addressed via hotfix:

  • Armor increased 100% while in cat form
    ( A druid should be at their weakest in caster form. A shape-shifting should provide SOME protection.)
  • Stampeding Roar moved to feral spec only
    (Provides needed spec utility)
  • Cyclone and Rejuvenation castable in cat form
    (Adds to survivability)
  • Ferocious Bite damage reduced by 5%-8%
  • Bleed damage increased by 10%-15%
  • Thrash applies a 20% snare for its duration

I do like some of your ideas. Savage Roar as a reset…sort of like Cold Snap is how I would see it. Or maybe add an AoE fear ability to its current iteration. Very unlikely, but would be cool to see.

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