Shadowlands Feels Unfulfilling

The WQ situation is frustrating at best. Aside from them being as grindy as they are, there are also less of them at any given time. I’ve logged in only to find 2 WQ’s up in Revendreth, maybe 3-4 in Bastion. Every expac w/ WQ’s had a minimum of 5 up at any time in each zone. More often, it was 5-7+. I remember in previous expacs going weeks and weeks sometimes without seeing a particular WQ, because there was so many the system would ‘randomly’ activate.

I’m also still bitter they completely ditched archaeology. This would have been the perfect setting for it.

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I’m just having fun playing goblins. The backdrop (Shadowlands) is strange. Even for what it is, it isn’t really described properly or done too well. But headcanon > the writer’s dojo, by far. Like, no contest.

Only problem there is that the systems aren’t great either.

The character I play the most, and have renown 40 for = Necrolords… yet I’ve never built a construct. I haven’t done a mission on the mission table. I haven’t done a world quest in weeks.

Torghast… no rewards. Just soul ash. Which feels like getting nothing because it’s a thing you need for your ilvl that then costs you gold. It’s like going to a fancy restaurant, waiting an hour for your food and then the waiter brings out a bill for $600 on a silver platter.

I’d prefer it if they took the approach they did for Islands – pack that place with xmog gear, a few mounts, pets, toys & let us level from 50-60 in it.

People are levelling in ISLANDS by the way, from 50-60. I know because I just made a level 10 xp-capped mage for islands and have encountered many disaffected players slowly grinding to 60 on a feature many people hated (not me, obviously lol) – and on top of it, seeing me = their lucky day because WoW’s absurd scaling means that I am giving them a carry despite being 40+ levels lower.

Speaking as someone from the outside (not owning SL) and looking in, from everyone I’ve spoken to on the subject Shadowlands lacks any soul. It’s well designed, but there’s no spark or passion to anything it does.

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you know, torghast feels like a flubbed version of deep dungeons from ffxiv. extremely large amount of content with several floors and different bosses for each 10 floors (or however many floors there are in each torghast run), where each run is slightly different due to random drops.

the problem with torghast is that unlike a deep dungeon from ffxiv, is that torghast has no reward. deep dungeons in ffxiv are actually the quickest way to level up (that is, if you dont skip cutscenes in the main scenario questline.) they also drop mounts, special gear, special outfits, and can give titles and other goodies. and, a large amount of experience as already mentioned.

torghast gives a resource for a legendary. now, at surface value, that’s worth it on its own. legendaries should require a certain amount of effort to procure. but the way they went at it kinda feels wrong. i’ll explain in another post since this kinda goes away of the reason for me replying to you.

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anyone remember the legendary questlines for sulfuras, thunderfury, atiesh, shadowmourne, fangs, dragonwrath, the mists cloak, the warlords ring? (i dont remember atiesh because i wasnt around for that, but… you get what i mean.) these monumental efforts of crafting, raiding, grinding, etc… they had a certain awe and importance around them. sure by the time of the cloak and the ring legendaries had been easier and easier to net, but they still had a lot of importance around them.

by legion, though, legendaries just felt like another random drop. then bfa gave the cloaks back from mists, but with less panache and story importance. now shadowlands gives us legendaries as “this random guy makes you something for expensive resources that you got for free in another expansion.”

talk about unfulfilling.

what once was a grand effort with a huge payoff in the end is now just a random piece of gear that you feel nothing about getting. dont get me wrong, im glad to get tempest of the lightbringer back, but just make a new row of talents or something. stop wasting everyone’s time with borrowed power that doesn’t even look cool, have a cool story, or even have any sense of specialty around it.

shadowlands is a step up on what legion’s legendaries were at the beginning, but the system at the end of legion for getting legendaries beats it hard. i just dont get it, man.

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Disconnected is definitely what I feel with the story as well. Wandering around any of the zones and doing the storylines I’m constantly asking myself “Why does my character care about any of this when there’s so much still happening on Azeroth.”

I think the problem is we’re playing mortal characters and we’re being shoe horned into solving the problems of these cosmic entities that are so above and beyond what our characters lore capabilities are.

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Speaking as a subless, Shadowlands-less non-entity, I have to say that I think what y’all are saying is what I was saying when the teaser cinematic dropped: this entire expansion is out of left field with no set-up leading into it. It is the Big-Lipped Alligator Moment of WoW expansions.

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Shadowlands is not the worst.

But it’s nowhere near the best.

I’d place it currently at under middling-tier, but I’m waiting for the rest of the expansion before I make a call. I’m having fun with my friends though, and that’s what matters.

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I’ll say that this expansion is the quickest I’ve gone from “Wow, this is fun! Let’s do all the content!” to money-making mode.

(Granted, it didn’t make me outright quit like BFA Uldir did… yet.)

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It’s a similar problem to an Upcoming Big MMO I’m currently in the Alpha for. The systems themselves aren’t terrible, and it looks very pretty, but there’s not much of a reason to do any of it.

Anyone in marketing or advertising has probably heard the method of going “Three Levels” deep, and it’s really the same case for game design. Essentially, you ask a question, but then you keep asking more questions until you’ve gotten to the root of a player’s needs. For example:

  1. Why are people questing? -> To get gold.
  2. Why do they want gold? -> To buy this outfit.
  3. Why do they want this outfit? -> ???

That third level of questioning is important because it’s where you will often get into the psychology of what a player wants. Maybe they want a cool glam. Or maybe that outfit will make them one of the topped ranked players in PVP. Whatever the answer, that is ultimately the question that you need to be asking when developing a game because that’s where you find a player’s purpose.

WoW used to be good at this. FFXIV is still fantastic at it. Making systems that are designed around players’ motivations is what keeps them playing.

However, as with this other MMO coming out, SL just kind of stopped at the second question. They decided that something needed to be in the game because it marks off something on a checklist of “Needs” without actually asking if players really had any kind of initiative to finish any of it. Systems are there because they are part of the game and need to be there.

It’s a development strategy more akin to an actual casino: people are already here and need things to do so put things in that keep them longer, even if they don’t really have any driving desire to do anything beyond killing time. But unlike a casino, where there’s at least the potential to make more money, there isn’t really enough of a hook in a video game to make it work, and they were too stingy with rewards anyway.

Blizzard ultimately got their heads so far up their rears, they forgot why players ultimately play the game, which isn’t to be involved with WoW’s systems or grand design or whatever; it’s because they want their individual characters to fit their individual playstyles. Sometimes that is through a story. Sometimes it’s through transmogs or raid parses or RP. Whatever the case, people want their character to be their own.

SL instead funnels everyone through the same overall experience and was extremely stingy on rewards, so it ultimately feels like we can’t do that. You can personalize what you DO to an extent, but you can’t really personalize what you get from those experiences. Blizzard was so focused on power structure of gear and how systems work together that they homogenized it all so there’s really nothing unique about it; the expansion feels very impersonal in a genre all about defining your personality through your avatar.

They didn’t ask the third question, so everyone just has to do something because the game says you need to do it to get this other thing.

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In my opinion, Shadowlands lacks ambition. I somewhat predicted this happening when you look at the announcement trailer they gave us at Blizzcon. One thing you notice as you pay attention to the trailer is that it is artificially inflated by stretching selling points.

One example of this is that in almost all previous trailers, they never bothered to list all zones as a separate feature. The MoP trailer shows “New Continent: Pandaria”, whereas the Shadowlands trailer actually shows “Explore the Shadowlands!” and then goes to “New Zone: X” for all four of the available zones. This is a stark contrast to previous trailers and indicates to me that Blizzard was quite aware that, had they chosen to go the old route up until Legion, the trailer would be only 2/3 as long as previous expansions and show a lack of “smaller” features.

Secondly, one of the two big new features isn’t ambitious or creative. Essentially, it’s an order hall with a different re-skin. The entire thing rests on grinding WQ to purchase upgrades, which honestly makes them the most barebone “carrot on a stick” in ages. Almost any MMORPG has carrots on a stick. If you think about it, the stronghold feature in SWTOR (housing) is a “carrot on a stick” too. You farm decorations that drop from different activities and put them into your stronghold.

The major difference is that there are so many different ways to get these decorations that it doesn’t feel barebones. 90% of all anima is coming from WQ and 95% of all grateful offerings (for cosmetic items) come from the same two sources - open the special chest once a day and doing two out of six daily quests. There is a variance of about 15-20 WQ and daily quests/objectives in the anima conductor/the general zone which make up for 95%+ of all the currency you need to unlock the Covenant Halls and consumables.

There is a point to be made that WoD had too much focus on Garrison content, despite me actually quite enjoying the expansion for class design and due to the zones being great, but even the Garrison was more complex during it’s inception than Covenant Halls. You had utility buildings, different large buildings for rewards, profession specific buildings and so on. I could have a PvP char with the PvP Sanctum, a mount farming character with the Stables and so on. It wasn’t much, but it was still a bit better than the “one size fits all” upgrades that are Covenant Sanctums.

Torghast is a separate issue where I think Blizzard majorly dropped the ball. It’s a weekly chore for Soul Ash that, outside of Twisted Corridor, gives you literally no incentive to run continuously except Soul Ash. There’s no cosmetics, no pets, no titles and no other rewards besides currency. Once you go through TC once, you have all the cosmetics you can get from it and you can basically stop ever interacting with it. It’s a currency machine without replayability.

TL;DR of this rant is that SL feels lacking to me because there is no ambition in it’s design. Torghast is a currency printer. The Covenant Sanctum is a WQ grind - get anima from WQ, turn it in, buy reward. Rince and repeat ad infinitum. There is no new class or profession to sink your teeth into. There is no depth to the two new systems. Heck, they even got rid of archaeology, so we lost profession content. Nothing in it is bad, but it’s the most obvious carrot on a stick design I’ve seen to date.

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Idk man they invented a whole new roguelike dungeon system and forgot to add any rewards or reasons to do it beyond a weekly obligation for hardcore players

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Shadowlands feels more like content patches than a full on expansion to me. Something about the narrative, geography, and new added systems.

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Yeah IMO it’s not designed well at all. In fact, I’m scratching my head over how their entire team wasn’t shaken up after BfA. The story is always silly but now the game lacks elegance.

It’s never felt like more of a chore. To the point of me actually looking at the covenant quests and world quests on a map and deciding to go clean cobwebs off the side of my house (spiders will fully wrap my house in like, days: Australia) instead because it’s a more interesting chore.

i genuinely believe the anima numbers being completely screwed really boned blizzard out of a bunch of content

like, the numbers for the sanctum upgrades, the cosmetic armours, the mounts, the pets, everything, is so beyond screwed its insane; its over 15,000 anima for a full cosmetic set, and world quests (which we have significantly less of) give you what- 75? maybe over 100 if its a particular pain in the butt?

transmog, pets, mounts, and alternate gameplay systems are all different aspects of the game and none of it is worth doing in shadowlands because the number required are such a gargantuan grind that it begs the question of whats the point. im just gonna go play ff14 instead.

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Shadowlands is a perfectly fine expansion.

But I don’t think I can really just accept “perfectly fine” anymore.

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It does feel very… “This will do.” There’s something almost offensive about how inoffensive it is.

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I actually did the numbers for this under a Reddit post the other day. You need about 140,000 anima for one Covenant full of upgrades and all cosmetics. That’s 560,000 anima for all four Covenants and all four cosmetic item sets.

As I said, 90%+ of your anima will come from WQ at least until 9.1! At 100 average per WQ that’s…well, somewhere along the lines of 5,600 world quests! That’s a steal!

I’m really enjoying it but having some content besides just dungeons and a raid would be nice.

And that’s just for one armor class, now imagine trying to go for all covenant sets for all armor classes, as was my plan before I discovered how dumb this expansion is.

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