Shadow rework feels terrible

Playing on the PTR: the whole Shadow Priest button pressing doesn’t feel as smooth and buttery as current live retail does.

On live retail there’s a smooth transition between placing dots, SWV, mind flay, triggering void eruption, and switching between SWV and Voidbolt. I’m probably doing it wrong, but I only play shadow to grind dailies.

On the PTR you have a 1.5 second longer mindflay which just feels like an eternity. There’s no two charges of Mind Blast to start with. You just have one.

So it involves dotting, mind blast, long-cast mind flay… building enough insanity to start casting devour plague which only lasts 6 seconds. That’s my issue. The whole fact the dot lasts only 6 seconds and you can’t extend SWP/Vampiric Touch with Mind Bolt anymore. Void Form doesn’t last very long at all.

So it involves some weird janky game play of trying to micro-manage recasting a 6s dot, reapplying your own SWP/VT when it falls off, long 4s mind flay, and waiting on mind blast to instant cast or get off cooldown. For my brain its a lot harder to manage all of this stuff vs the current live retail because your DPS will be bad if you’re not keeping devouring plague up almost 95% of the time.

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You probably just need to spend a little more time with it. It feels really natural and smooth to me, but I played shadow in previous expansions prior to Voidform. This is all very familiar territory for me.

I think it’s more you framing DP as a maintainence dot, when it’s more like a spender that happens to also be a dot.

Also remember voidform is just a cooldown now, and it provides a really solid chunk of insanity quickly with the extra charge of blast and VB it gives you to get going.

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Yeah - the goal isn’t to keep DP up 100%. The goal is to not overcap insanity, i.e. make sure you’re not flaying or casting MB when you have a full bar. Spend it on DP first. Different mindset from retail, and also how the spec used to work for a long time.

I see what your saying, however… It slightly changed how I approach my rotation. Without it, I would cast MB then DP and follow with Flays while MB in on CD. But with Talbadar’s stratagem, I want to use DP then follow up with MB. This becomes problematic when I want to use Voidform as if I use DP before VF, then I loose out on the +% damage buff on DP, but I gain a GCD just so I can spam 2 MB into a 3 dot target to get that 30% bonus.

I feel using Talbadar’s stratagem actually makes the spec play a bit worse. Like I hate how difficult it becomes to have MB available to cast while all 3 dots are on target.

Regarding Shadowflame prism, I think that is an “easy” choice even though its a boring one. I really want us to get “something” from its attacks be it resources or proc chance for something like Dark Thoughts or reduce CD of VF etc.

I also find that Damnation and Void Torrent are hard to get use out of where as Mind Bender is an easy set and forget.

Edit:

Side issue…

What are your thoughts on the healing received from Devouring Plague damage? Currently, it feels really weak as I can DP 2 targets out of lets say 5 and all their normal auto-attacks still bring my HP lower then the leech heals from both DP and all my VT’s going on. At the end, they all die and I am sitting at around 30% hp and thus need to spam heal myself back up with Shadowmend. It feels like it shouldn’t work that way. But perhaps I am just too used to my Demon Hunter healing with both leech and soul consumption.

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I haven’t yet tried it, but if they’ve gotten rid of the Voidform mechanic, it’s going to be an improvement… even if the end result is lower numbers.

The Voidform mechanic was great in Legion, when your skill, knowledge and rotation could create opportunities for some amazing Voidforms - especially once S2M entered the equation. Once they basically removed your agency to extend Voidforms to any significant degree, it became a stupid, pointless mechanic that just made you feel bad when you weren’t in it.

I’m very much looking forward to the new Shadow.

It’s healing for 50% of the damage dealt. Feels absolutely fine to me.

VT doesn’t really do that much damage right now imo; so the healing from it is pretty small. I think the DP healing is pretty solid. Being able to kill 5 mobs at once without actually using a defensive or casting a self heal isn’t too bad…is this on beta or PTR? Demon Hunter definitely spoiled you though! I know because I’ve played it too.

Leveling in Beta and in Torghast.

It’s definitely a gear thing, but I want to bring it up because it will either scale too well or very poorly if its based on damage done = healing done. I was thinking maybe it can act more on % HP heal instead.

If you look at the DH, you get leech amount based on damage done + % amount based on soul consumed.

So if you applied that to priest, maybe keep VT and initial impact damage of DP based on a number value healing. But then have each dot tick from DP heal by % base like 3% each tick, so you get can get some healing based on the damage you deal, and some based on a % so that if you get amazing gear, you wont get crazy leeching numbers and if you are fresh out, you can still get decent % leeching.

Its just something I’m chewing on, probably wont need to be addressed or considered until we are in shadowlands proper. But its a concern of mine on either end.

I think it’s good the way it is. Being tanky was always a core part of Shadow’s kit, until recently. It’s a welcome change to have it back.

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But that’s the thing, we are not “tanky” until you get top end gear. I am trying to say that when your fresh out with no gear, you self heals are bad because it based on the amount of gear and stats you have. But if it was a % base at least partially, then it would work for both ends of the spectrum, not just the top end.

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I’ve always hated % based mechanics like that…I guess we’ll see how things shake out. It feels bad getting awesome gear but not really seeing a benefit from it. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that you lose some hp while fighting 5 mobs at once in leveling gear, though. Some classes probably can’t even manage that without using cds.

I only “noticed” it while fighting mobs. Those mobs were just auto attacking really.

But my main concern is in PvP. In PvP, any amount of damage mitigation from your damage like damage reduction % CD’s used by your enemies and the fact that they can dispel your dots and prevent you from casting in the first place makes it so your self healing is massively underutilized.

With % based, you are guaranteed to get X% of total HP back.

3 Likes

tentabro was probably the only good voidform ever did for priests.

100% this. tankiness is so important to a shadow priest and nobody talks about it. we are the least mobile class in the game. if we cant move we need to be able to take a hit. when voidform was introduced in legion we lost all of our tankiness and got nothing in return. im glad its back. id rather be tanky than mobile. theres already too much mobility in this game.

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Melee tears inc.
“Hurr durr caster didn’t die when I press big dam QQ”

Well if ppl want less tanky casters then melee mobility needs to be majorly gutted. But that will never happen so too bad so sad.

2 Likes

New Shadow PTR notes.

Shadow

  • [Devouring Plague] Afflicts the target with a disease that instantly causes [ 125% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage plus an additional 0 Shadow damage over 6 sec. Heals you for 300% 50% of damage dealt. Can be cast in Shadowform. Priest - Shadow Spec. Priest - Shadow Spec. All Shadow Orbs. 40 yd range. Instant.
  • [Legacy of the Void] Voidform no longer has a duration, but your Insanity will drain increasingly fast until it reaches 0, causing Voidform to end. While in Voidform, you gain 1% haste every 2 sec and your Void Bolt will also extend refresh the duration of your Devouring Plague on nearby targets by 6 sec the target. Shadow Priest - Level 100 Talent. Shadow Priest - Level 100 Talent.
  • [Mastery: Shadow Weaving (New) Your damage is increased by [ 50% of Spell Power ]% for each of Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague on the target. During Void Form, all targets receive the maximum effect. Priest - Shadow Spec. Priest - Shadow Spec.
  • [Psychic Link] Mind Blast deals 50% of its damage to all other targets afflicted by your Vampiric Touch within 40 yards. Shadow Priest - Level 75 Talent. Shadow Priest - Level 75 Talent.
  • [Searing Nightmare] Instantly deals [ 90% [ 75% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage to enemies around the target and afflicts them with Shadow Word: Pain. If the enemy is already afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain, Searing Nightmare’s damage is increased by 200%. Only usable while channelling 100%. Only usable while channeling Mind Sear. Shadow Priest - Level 45 Talent. Shadow Priest - Level 45 Talent. All Shadow Orbs. 100 yd range. Instant.
  • [Shadow Crash Hurl a bolt of slow-moving, far-reaching Shadow energy at the destination, dealing [ 125% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage to all targets within 8 yards. If Shadow Crash hits a lone target, they suffer 25% increased damage from your next Shadow Crash within 15 sec. Stacks up to 2. Generates 8 Insanity. 3 charges. Shadow Priest - Level 75 Talent. Shadow Priest - Level 75 Talent. 20-60 yd range. Instant. 60 sec recharge. 3 charges. 10-60 yd range. Instant. 45 sec recharge. 3 charges.
  • [Shadowfiend] Increases the duration of your Shadowfiend by 1 sec Your Shadowfiend now generates 3 Insanity for you each time it attacks. Priest - Shadow Spec. Priest - Shadow Spec.
  • [Vampiric Touch] A touch of darkness that causes [ 189% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 21 sec, and heals you for 0% 50% of damage dealt. If Vampiric Touch is dispelled, the dispeller flees in Horror for 3 sec. Generates 5 Insanity. Priest - Shadow Spec. Priest - Shadow Spec. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.[/quote]

On the PTR Shadow Weaving is giving me a 12.1% damage increase for each effect. So if all DOTs are applied thats a 36% damage increase. Seems way overtuned and will probably get toned down a bit, but this is how they’re baking in Voidforms old damage.

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but I wanted to share this idea I have for a “replacement” for Venthyr Priest Class ability.

Source of inspiration, Darkest Dungeon, Flagellant.

Ability:

  • Exsanguinate
    • Drains the target of blood, causing X dmg and healing yourself for X% HP. Only usable if you are below X% HP. 45 sec cooldown.
      • Developers note:
        • I wanted damage done based by gear but healing done based on total % of max health.
        • Perhaps it can extend to group members or grant absorb or leeching after effect for a short duration by a Venthyr specific conduit just like we have a specific one already affecting Mind Games.
        • I figured as a Priest, we find ourselves low HP quite a lot as we are just punching bags (mainly in PVP) but also M+ and Raid mechanics. So it would fit and work with all 3 specs while having a “blood” theme tied to Venthyr.
        • Also, you can combo this after using SW:D to get you low HP then an additional high damage ability + healing that brings you back up.

I know its a bit late in the game for something like this. But I thought it was fun and interesting all the same. Its taking the warriors execute concept where your unable to use at all unless a set % HP but instead of just doing damage, its a 1 press for massive damage + healing with a decent cooldown attached to it. This makes it so you are a threat to push to low HP as you could recover from it and take out a low HP enemy.

Source link:
https://darkestdungeon.gamepedia.com/Flagellant

Source text:

Exsanguinate

5 pts/rd for 3 rds Heal 35% max HP
-25% Healing Skills
-25% Healing Received
-3 SPD
Limit: 3 Uses per Battle
Only usable below 40% HP

Edit:

The Exsanguinate ability would seem really strong. So in an attempt to make the other Covenants just as appealing…

Kyrian:

  • Boon of the Ascended
    • Draw upon the power of the Ascended for 10 sec, granting you access to Ascended Blast, replacing
    • Shadow
      • Mind Flay
    • Discipline, Holy
      • Smite
  • Ascended Blast
    • After each successful Ascended Blast, grant an additional charge of (abilities), lasts 6 sec.
    • Shadow
      • Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death
    • Discipline, Holy
      • <insert Holy/Disc CD abilities that would be good to get an extra charge of>
  • Developers note:
    • I wanted to give a CD ability that does damage while also granting an additional charge of abilities that you want in a pinch.

Necrolord:

  • Unholy Nova
    • An explosion of dark energy infects targets within 15 yds with Unholy Transfusion.
  • Unholy Transfusion
    Deals Shadow damage over 15 sec. Allies who damage this target are healed. Any target affected by your Damage Over Time or Healing over time effects will spread the remaining duration to every other respective target type.
    • Developers note:
      • I wanted to give a way to “spread” our DoT & HoT affects so that you can use Unholy Nova as a group/raid defensive/offensive CD. This would benefit each spec and become a compelling choice.

<I didn’t bother with Night Fae since it just got a rework and seems to be good now?>

The only way to really fix VF as a cd is to have it generate 50 insanity a second during its duration so that a SP can get more than 2 or 3 devours out before its done.

Mastery is indeed buggy and overtuned. The changes to VT, dp, link are tooltip fixes. Searing nightmare went from 90-180% to 75-150% (Also tooltip fix of 200-100)

The voidform thing only really affects aoe not st, because on st you already basically get full benefit.