…Do you…see any exclamation points? Or any anger, at all? I mean, if you’re going to be rude about it, I can just ignore you and be done with it since you got called out and have to resort to that.
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LMAO WHAT.
Bye sis.
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A BM hunter with bestial wrath and aspect of the wild active will kill something faster than a shadow priest starting from zerowith a large ilvl difference. That’s not overall DPS, but overall DPS means nothing when open world mobs live for at most 10-15 seconds excluding rares.
It’s also to an extent fair, because obviously the spec with burst CDs is going to be able to leverage them to… Yaknow, burst. The problem more lies in shadow having no realistic way to mitigate it. You wanna kill something faster? Tough luck, you have no option to do anything more than your rotation, at least not that will achieve an improved result.
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This doesn’t make a lot of sense for several reasons, and poses a lot of iffy questions:
- Why would you be using world mobs as any sort of barometer for DPS?
- What is this ficticious scenario supposed to highlight and how is it relevant?
2b. If Hunter is going to use cooldowns, why can’t Shadow Priest do the same for this single mob?? - How is any difference in time-to-kill between specs on a world mob factor into the strength/weakness of Shadow Priest?
3b. Shouldn’t it already be presumed that a sinewave (ramp-up, ramp-down) spec like Shadow Priest will take longer to kill an enemy if the enemy will be killed during the ramp-up period?
3c. How is the above relevant, again??
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Because the person in question is a disgruntled ex shadow player who has just picked up an alt and is seeing how much easier their day to day activities are, despite being significantly less geared.
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For the record, I tried Shadow - I got all 465 pieces for it with 3x Chorus of Insanity (bis trait) and I was like “yeah no”. Like I said, there’s just no more room for ramp up damage specs in this game.
That’s okay though, I really enjoy Holy 
Don’t get me wrong, Shadow does excel in high keys and raiding - but that’s it.
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The problem, is that it’s immediately flawed because you’re using a world mob.
A world mob scales to the player. That means it doesn’t matter if one person is ilvl 10 and the other is ilvl 1000. That means you’re not comparing DPS between the players. An ilvl 100 character on a scaled mob could theoretically kill that mob faster than another spec on an equally scaled mob at ilvl 500.
I’m not sure what you mean by “how much easier”, unless you legitimately think a time-to-kill on the order of <5-10 seconds is the great divider on difficulty and enjoyment of world content. That’s entirely subjective though, so if you’re bothered by an otherwise insignificant slower pace, then have at it.
I think that for some people, some degree of the enjoyment gained from playing a character based fantasy game is being able to feel powerful. If you don’t feel powerful, and in fact feel relatively pathetic, in something like world content that you do considerably more often than mythic plus keys or raiding, then that’s a problem.
Not to mention that those who feel powerful in the open world also feel powerful in more difficult instances content too.
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That’s…a pretty big stretch of the imagination that you would correlate “feeling powerful” to world content given that virtually no one on these forums or elsewhere places or has placed world content within the realm of “reasons why my character feels good” category. If you have some links or elsewhere that can refute that, by all means.
And again, the time difference between BM Hunter, a class that historically always been the go-to solo class, and Shadow Priest, a spec within a class that has historically always been the slowest class to level in world content regardless of the expansion, is still far smaller than you’re making it out to be.
Consider SPriest’s ramp to maximum potential output. 55 seconds, if we’re lucky.
Now look at any other spec in the game, and also consider the very same question in the amount of time it takes for maximum potential output.
There’s the issue at hand.
Now also consider the content that favour immediate (or near enough to immediate) output. And there, we have the issue.
But let’s not forget the mandatory traits (borrowed power) and talents that are required for the spec to function, instead of simply allowing the player options to augment their playstyle 
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You’re implying that:
- You need to get to maximum output in world content in order to be…viable?..In…world content?
- How is this even remotely relevant when people have been specifically pointing out that they usually kill world mobs before they even hit their first voidform, or immediately after hitting voidform, thus ‘wasting’ it? You don’t need to get to quote-unquote ‘maximum output’ in world content.
Secondly, the spec doesn’t need its traits (as a core of the spec, not that they literally don’t need to pick the traits) to be competitive compared to other DPS, especially not for most of the content in the game. Once again, you’re (General ‘you’) conflating the most difficult content with the only content that matters.
Most players are not doing the hardest content (In PvE’s case, +15 keystones and Mythic raids). Classes are not designed to be infinitely viable above the threshold in which you can earn gear. If they were, in Mythic+, your spells and abilities would scale along with the dungeon and your abilities would need to be completely re-designed.
You’re simply just regurgitating talking points ad infinitum. Take a look at posts 100 - 103. It’s literally just an echo chamber of “borrowed power” and “bandaid fixes”. One person says something that conforms with a narrative, and another person repeats it, so long as it fits with the narrative. It’s part of the reason why I only come around once a week or so, if that.
It’s not coincidence that most Voidform/Shadow-negative posts get liked by a small group of people, sometimes within a minute of posting. It’s not that people actually agree with the post, it’s just the same people to try to get brownie points and keep it going.
Shadow is not the best spec in the game. Shadow is also not perfectly balanced. But Shadow also isn’t this malformed half-spec that people in this forum seem to imply.
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Except it is and no amount of arguing from some one who hasnt done anything of note this entire expansion on Shadow can argue against. You have no idea what youre talking about.
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You just saying ‘it is’, and not elaborating is like you saying ‘I agree’, and not elaborating. Your post does nothing to refute me.
Can you do the hardest content in the game as Shadow? I’m pretty sure you can, and I’m pretty sure it’s been done. You’ll need more to argue that Shadow can’t do end-game content when the content has already been completed with Shadow Priests.
Edit: “You haven’t done anything this expansion”, he said, while not having done any M+ on his Priest this entire expansion.
Shadow is exactly this, though. Like i said in another post, it really feels like shadow itself is a problem that talents and azerite are trying to solve. Compare this to other specs with less cookie-cutter builds that can function incredibly well with their toolkit in the current meta. The meta is fast front-loaded damage, look at M+ or even torghast to see this. Shadow does neither of those well.
Talents and azerite try and fix this, but unless 3-4 current basically mandatory talents come baseline, it will continue to cause so many problems and be completely unique in just how disadvantaged it is. And them being brought baseline is still just a bandaid, and so everything comes back full-circle to the voidform experiment.
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Did I use the word viable?
Content in general!
How exactly do you compare 55sec of ramp compared to the rate of maximum potential output of all other specs?!?
So you’re saying Chorus of Insanity or Twisted Apparitions is not needed to be competitive?
Of which, has been the topic for how long? I clearly remember the very same conversations during BFA’s testing cycle, and here we are again with the very same issues!
If you choose to be ignorant of such problems, of how this “echo chamber” exists, you need to consider that players have been discussing these issues of mandatory talents and ramp with experience in all content.
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Been an issue since its fruition in Legion beta my friend lol.
Do you like to obstinately argue semantics on purpose? Any other spec in the game can basically kill a quest mob in 2-3 gcds (not including use of essences) Shadow has to stand there, dot up, mind blast, and spam flay 3-4 times regardless of gear level.
Yes, yes it does.
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I hadn’t argued it at the time (as I had for BFA), but I definitely remember the very same conversations during Legion’s testing. More of a rhetorical question 
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I have. World content (solo content of all varieties really) is one of Shadow’s big weak points and it’s not that it can’t do these things, it just never really reaches its peak.
So, for me, it’s a combination of the ramp up time and relatively poor survivability. I don’t really get the ‘full’ VF experience with loads of haste because, outside of a few rare scenarios, nothing lives long enough to get through a full VF and thus get me an appreciable number of LI stacks and if I try to pull a lot of things at once to maintain a big VF, I’m probably going to die. So I just do the boring ‘build up’ part of Shadow with none of the pay-off over and over and over again.
I don’t think ‘being bad in solo/world content’ is an acceptable weakness for any DPS spec to have. Much less the only DPS spec for an entire class.
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The priest I boosted is now more geared than any other toon I have, and I now consider my main- I have yet to do M+, rated PvP, or raiding beyond LFR, but plan to soon. Since I will be maining it, I’m all for getting on the “shadow priests need more love” bandwagon, I just think it’d be more interesting if people came up with more specific, interesting solutions/ possibilities, rather than just saying “the entire spec is terrible” or attacking other people’s more constructive opinions. I’ll be posting a forum with the priest, looking for more specific ideas on what could work- I think it’d be interesting!
We have, plenty of times.
I myself have dished out several ideas and many others have as well.
If you haven’t come across them, you haven’t read much on the forums.
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