effectively? Yes it does. Shadow word: pain becomes a useless button with misery. This is indisputable.
I agree the tier set being revolved around pushing pain is dumb
Agree.
But it doesnât stop someone pressing it.
Which again, why I say whatâs the point in trying to push it to be a button at all.
If Misery didnât exist, then I have to spend x2 longer dotting things up if SW:P still existed. As I said before, if you can index into a more rot focused talent options in Periodic Damage focused then I can see this making sense. But otherwise, you just loosing time to cast other cooler spells.
I would prefer a talent option with Misery. Misery for more qol and dot management and GCD saving. And the other choice could just just increase your periodic damage at the cost of your Non-Periodic damage being reduced.
So perhaps something like that thisâŚ
- Your Periodic Damage is increased by 20% and your Non-Periodic damage is reduced by 20%.
Pretty basic, but this clearly leans into a more periodic damage based talent in that your dots do more damage but you also need to use more GCDâs to get them out.
Exactly, this is whats desired. Not necessarily Miseryâs removal, but having the choice to not take misery
(not necessarily that exact talent, but the idea of something else instead of misery as a choice)
But it needs to be a gameplay defining choice that is not just a choice for choices sake.
When it was paired up with Dark Void, it was not a choice because misery was just superior and Dark Void didnât really interact with the spec because you loose out of VT + SW:P aoe application due to Shadow Crash synergy with Misery.
So if you canât pick up misery, essentially, you loose out of mass dotting from a single spell in addition to having to cast 2x more manual single target dot application spells.
Which means you need more incentive to throw away so many GCDâs in being consumed by applying so many dot spells. So the dots just need to hit harder and perhaps reduce non dot spells as I mentioned.
There are other reasonable methods, particularly at lower target count. It doesnt necessarily need to be gameplay defining, as misery already alters the gameplay from base level. The gameplay difference being vt applying swp VS manually casting pain, regardless of what the actual node would be. Of course the node has to be strong enough to legitimately contend with misery, at least at low target counts where the quick application of dots is less valuable and not just a throwaway thats worse than misery in every case.
Idk why you mention being unable to pick misery, people still want the option of picking misery, stop saying that. Misery should indeed still be an option as shadow priest is currently designed.
If people want to pick Misery, then it should be an option. I agree.
If people want to OPT out in picking Misery, then you are FORCED to add a talent option with Misery. But picking that talent option, you are forfeiting Misery.
Meaning you canât use Shadow Crash to mass dot. Sure you can use it to Spread VT only I suppose, but by the arguments in this thread, to opt out of misery means it will affect Mass Dot application.
Meaning that choice needs to have a lot of incentives to loose mass dot application in addition to doubling the time it takes to apply your dots.
Correct, this is whats wanted. Realistically, the alternative would only be a choice at low target counts (which is fine)
Then I donât understand what you were getting at with my last quote from you if you agree with my last statement.
Explain what you dont understand and Ill be happy to clarify
This entire bit here.
I donât know what you think I said that made you respond with that.
It was a response to this portion. We still want to be able to pick up misery. IF we chose a hypothetical other option to misery, then yes those things would be sacrificed by choice.
TLDR: We want Misery to be a choice node with something else, which we can take when we are willing to spend more gcds applying dots.
That was what I was getting at.
Meaning you canât have your cake and eat it too.
By NOT picking Misery, you loose a lot of qol aspects that severely increase your GCD use in manually applying dots.
So again, if we have to spend more time manually casting dots with this other choice with Misery, then it stands to reason that those dots should just generally hit harder to justify a lot more gameplay time is spent just casting and refreshing dots over and over.
Which again, I want that choice. I want to be able to lean into Periodic and Non-Periodic damage builds. But I just wanted to be clear in that its a major gameplay shift in more of a gameplay detraction as it consumed more time casting the same spells and in this case specifically, your damage over time spells.
Indeed this is the choice.
This is, in fact, a potential alternative yes. We are on the same page at this point
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Not having to choose between twist of fate and misery is a positive imo.
People like to forget Wrathion, Skitra and Maut. Nothing says fun like coming out of voidform at 140% haste and 100% crit and nothing to attack until your stacks drop off.
Not when it means always playing Misery, no. The choice node doesnât have to be Misery vs ToF anyway, it can be whatever as long as you never ever pick Misery at on ST and ideally up to 3.
Oh no! A spec isnât 100% fun in 100% of fights.
Sure it had a few fights it wasnât well designed for, but BFA had numerous fights where shadow completely dominated and was in fact nerfed because of its performance.
Oh I agree I guess my point is they also design fights to indirectly nerf or buff specs. Shadow was bad for many years then a nightmare to balance in legion, bfa and Towards the end of an expansion when secondary get crazy.
I think thereâs a LOT of fights in Shadowlands where VF shadow would have been awful though. Kael thas, Shriekwing, Dancers, SLG, Eye, Painsmith, Fatescribe, Kelthuzad, could have probably worked out sylvanas.
All I can say is when Shadow Priest start doing great dps and feel great Blizzard ruins it. Every damn time. Its like Blizzard never wants Priest to be anything more than just supportive in their role no matter what they are doing.
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