Shadow is Worse than Ever

Why did they remove the talent that auto-applies SW: Pain when you cast Vampiric Enbrace? Now I have to micromanage dots. [Edit: Vampiric Touch, apparently talent still exists as a lesser option.]

Who asked for Void Form to return? This has been a terrible cooldown since it started as Meta form for Warlocks; it funnels your damage into a short window and otherwise you’re limp-wrist casting.

Tentacle Slam was entirely unnecessary; why remove Shadow Crash which was visually more appealing?

I feel like some clown arbitrarily decided setting SPriest back 10 years was somehow a good idea. It’s not like this class has another DPS spec, so I guess it’s just dead now.

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Huh? Do you mean Vampiric Touch? Why would Embrace apply pain? I don’t remember that. The talent for pain being applied thru touch still exists, it’s a choice node with increased pain damage.

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Did you just copy and paste your talent tree in from Wowhead? Misery is still a talent.

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They didn’t remove misery. Take a few minutes to look around the tree. We came out of TWW relatively well off compared to some classes.

That said, Invoked Nightmare is awesome if you’re willing to manage your dots a bit more. SWP does incredible damage with that talent. Makes us feel like a proper dot class again.

With talents, you can apply SW: Pain, Vampiric Emprace, and Madness AOE with Tentacle Slam. I swear, 95% of the doomer “my spec is ruined” posts for all classes in these Forums are due to user error and sheer ignorance. I mess with ever single talent in a tree before settling on a build.

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Amen, 99% of “spec is ruined posts” are from people who logged in, pressed starter build, and hit a dummy for 1 minute, or just read an article with a list of removed abilities.

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Concur with others. Compared to how my Ele shaman feels Shadow is a pleasure to play foR me.

Of all the specs out there, Shadow doesn’t really feel changed that much, comparatively….

New coat of paint and a little tinkering, sure, but the gameplay is really not that different.

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Misery is still a talent, it’s just a choice node with something that buffs SW:P by 150%.

For voidweaver, this talent is very strong, and is taken in most scenarios. The cookie cutter build you copied from wowhead or wherever has taken it.

It pays to read what your talents do after things change.

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I’m really enjoying the changes. I like the tentacle, it adds more old god flavor. I hope we get talents to spawn more tentacles. Shadow crash was ok, when you set it to target an enemy, but it was still so slow and that mob could run from the group killing the AOE effect.

My biggest issue thus far with shadow is it didn’t really even wiggle the table in terms of making things different or interesting. It still has nearly all the issues it had for things in PvE world

We are still made of spun glass compared to most classes. Not surprising but its there it feels like.

Silence is still one of the worst interrupts given its cooldown and with lockouts being increased it makes it worse in a fashion.

Defensive wise Shadow for M+ and Raids is TERRIBLE. Flash heal for 10% and Fade for 10%, utilizing a hard cast and then another ability to manage that.

Dispersion exists but for a total lockout of doing anything but moving…the healing isn’t worth it either since in M+ or Raid content you’d want to cancel after the damage prevention anyway, since rarely would you need to sit in it for the full 6 seconds.

Shield isn’t even worth mentioning at this point. Currently for a pure numbers view I get a 7.5k shield. Not even a solid 10% of my hp, barely more than 5% of my total hp.

Self healing is a complete joke now. Flash heal was nerfed TO THE GROUND currently at least. 2% leech, VE as a 2 min cooldown and 30% from madness is abyssmal for sustain. We are down to relying on Desperate Prayer on a 1.5 min cooldown as a ‘sustain’ ability.

Shadow Crash (now Tentacle Slam) at least sort of? Is improved in its ability to hit targets, less ‘disappears into nothingness’ sometimes and its speed prevents some of the LOS issues a LITTLE more (still has them but harder to cause?). From some testing it looks? like it is still hard capped at about 8 targets so we’ll still have issues in M+ with larger pulls and being able to keep up with damage other classes can do.

We still rely on shield and feathers for movement which is pretty mid given its a 40% which compared to many other classes is downright slow for moving and repositioning (exacerbated with the combat mod changes. We’ll see if they make sure all pve enemies give ample time to get out of things)

Void Form is kinda an unexciting cooldown overall but I mean its a cooldown and it seems they are happy with a class having a 15% damage buff cooldown of some sort. Its a shame its a talent and so uninteresting overall.

In the future Spec Lock is likely to be an issue given the SIX talents in the spec tree (and since apex are focused around them you’d obviously want all six to max their potency right?)

Playstyle wise though it feels very ‘you’ll play basically how you did before, with the same issues you dealt with before’. You’ll still get to play Decline Simulator in group finder if you pug keys because you don’t bring much interesting to a key as a dps since you don’t have lust or a battle res, maybe PI but are we really back to the days of SL where you had a token shadow priest who was just there to make someone else look good and carry the dps of the key?

If you loved how shadow played before then I mean, its basically going to play relatively similar for the most part since it really didn’t lose most of its core spells (Mind blast, flay, crash/slam, VE and Pain). You’ll still clip Flays for almost anything else, etc.

That is probably the most disappointing part of it all, for all the annoying issues, they couldn’t even come up with something truly interesting to do with shadow or inspired or fresh. Just “Heres the same sandwich we just call it something different and adjusted the topping amounts a little.”

Maybe since they had the ‘new void darling’ with Devourer DH all the people coming up with interesting stuff in the void/shadow department got used up in the Warlock and DH teams who knows. Its just sad.

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They actually fixed a ton of issues with the Archon rotation. It was was VERY overcapped on procs and had to press a lot GCDs to start doing damage. Removing bender, making halo/void torrent a choice node, and fixing death speaker drastically improved that. So I wouldn’t say it plays similar to how it played before. Archon is nothing like it was.

But then, monkey paw, they got rid of MF: Insanity and ruined the whole rework. Now it feels like you don’t even have a hero talent.

If I’m being honest tho, with the history of shadow priest in mind, it is kind of refreshing to go into an expansion not being fundamentally different.

We got a lot of little things adjusted and though some old pain points remain(mobility being the main one for me) it’s nice to have some consistency.

My view is that after pugging primarily to 3k, it hurts to know that it would be the exact same experience in group finding and the same issues in keys as there ever was.

The problem is we can’t have a real interrupt because we need silence for PvP and putting it in a short CD would be insanely oppressive, imagine being able to completely lock a healer for multiple seconds every 10 seconds or ever 20 seconds. 30 seconds is already quite good.

I personally thing tentacle slam will do a lot to improve the situation for shadow, and we have far few globals as I mentioned previously if you want to play Archon in m+.

I’m curious what you think is holding back shadow from getting more invites besides just raw tuning.

In general I think it’s the lack of in combat utility.

When I’m on my feral druid I have several tools at the ready for mob control. Knock back, roar, vortex, bash, and an interrupt. All at once.

On my priest, as much as I love priest, I have Fear and silence… and MAYBE shackle if it’s the right kind of mob.

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Ya thats basically one of the biggest issues.

We are hard capped on AOE damage (so when you get to the point a tank pulls more than 8 Mobs we literally struggle to keep up on that damage profile).
-See things like first pull in Floodgate, or Gambit murlocs at start, priory first pull, etc where Bloodlust is often popped.

Our survival is very mixed. The change in bolter philosophy MIGHT help but I know Priory for example was always spicy on the early area with the gunners cause if they decided to just go at you more than one shot (or one decides you’re a good target after the thunderclap) even through fade and shield you could get got. The 10% from Fade really just isn’t enough to weather the damage well and stopping to Flash Heal is a DPS loss, and dispersing is more an emergency situation. Reliance of Desperate Prayer isn’t a solution either, since might save once but if the fight has these repeatable HIGH DAMAGE sources, you’re a liability.

Since we dont bring a groupwide Lust, and we don’t bring battle res either, we aren’t really giving the group a strong overall utility thing. PI is useful for A person, but does not replace lust or a battle res in terms of potency. We can say Leap of Faith is useful, but it is HIGHLY situational (and as group skill increases, it loses its usefulness since the group skill increase implies less likely to be badly positioned)

Our outright damage output was certainly not really a big issue (Ya we were more complex to play but when played well we could post the numbers). Its all the other details, why would you bring a priest when nearly any other RDPS brings more to the table in utility that can be consistently utilized in the dungeon, and generally better survival?

As for fixing it…I’d almost rather see PI be removed from Shadow and them given a proper Bloodlust, leave PI for the supportive specs of priest like Holy and Disc. Personally I’d like to see VE maybe be a constant passive at a lower percentage or just make our leech like 2% more and its always doing VE’s thing to add some interesting group aspect. (I remember when we were mana batteries! it wasnt good but it was unique?)

Its a shame we can’t have the tentacle root ability back as like a targetted thing or something we could use to contain mobs that like to move around or jump around. Losing the stun certainly hurts since it was at least AN option before to bring if you could swing the points.

Honestly, remove the Max Health stipulation from Mental Fortitude let us keep a rolling shield, and maybe give it like 15-20% max instead. Would help some in ongoing fights with chip damage to help consistently mitigate I’d think, if keeping it max 10% I’d say add Flay damage also but again, remove the “At full health” stipulation.

I’d like to see something like Door of Shadows returned, instant relocation in a fight is so much more useful than having to drop a feather on yourself or shield.

Giving shadow more oomph to PW:S might also help but god, its been nerfed to the ground I’d rather see something new replace it that is more functional and effective. Change it to like “Shroud of the Old Gods” and it gives like a 3 second large shield at the cost of like 10-20 insanity and has a 10-15 second cooldown or something. or the shroud is a more hefty % reduction of some sort and shield but uses insanity and cooldown together. Not all that much thought on such but spitballing

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Door of shadows for a holy priest would feel weird wouldn’t it

I mean as shadow you’re using feathers and shield all the time =p Door of Shadows would actually at least be shadowy lol

I guess that’s true. But they seek to adhere to “holy magic only” a bit more for holy than they do thematically for shadow. Regardless, gimme a “gate of the heavens” glyph for it :wink: