Separate PvP and PvE Gear

Ion removed the final separation of PvP gear and PvE gear when he removed item level scaling and the PvP trinket bonus in Legion. His reasoning was he wanted “gear to be gear”. There is a Q and A from Legion where he touches on this. Essentially he wants the gear from PvE to be just as good in PvP and vice versa. It eliminates the barrier to entry for both forms of content by not having to farm a separate set of gear.

In theory this is great however it has some serious drawbacks.

  1. The same issue still occurs. You still have preferred PvP stats, corruptions, traits, and items with special effects (think a tank trinket for a melee) and therefore still need a separate set of gear to be optimal in either form of content. This is no different than before.

  2. PvE gear will always trump PvP gear in PvP. Since there is no “pvp stat” (a free stat added to PvP gear such as resilience or pvp power),no item level scaling, and no 2 PvP trinkets bonus (15% reduced damage taken in PvP) then PvE gear with special effects always beats PvP sourced gear. Items like trinkets and weapons/gear with special effects have no equal from PvP.

  3. PvP gear acquisition has to change to match that of PvE gear as close as possible. This is why the PvP vendor was removed. It’s being brought back somewhat in Shadowlands selling inferior item level gear that can be upgraded based on your current rating via conquest. However this is nowhere near what it used to be in MoP and WoD where you can directly buy the best PvP gear regardless of your rating and be on a even playing field with everyone in PvP. This is important because in PvP any gear advantages should be non-existent or minimized as much as possible.

The attempt to remove the barrier for a PvP player who wants to participate in PvE content and the PvE player who wants to PvP is admirable, but it has failed. The barrier is still there. All this has achieved is to put PvP players at a disadvantage in their main form of content when facing PvE geared players and to frustrate the PvP player base with gearing acquisition changes.

Please go back to having separate PvP and PvE gear. There is a reason the original WoW devs designed it this way. They knew what they were doing and it was the best solution. There was no reason to change it and that’s more evident now than ever.


But… they didn’t. Vanilla had no pvp stat and gear was just gear. TBC/ Wrath had resil, but the gear was in no way separate.


I think the amount of people that would pvp if you needed pvp gear to be competitive would be much lower than it already is. Resilience was a disaster. Participation was bad because there was no PvE incentive to participate in PvP since the gear was all suboptimal.

This is a PvE game with PvP modes. If you wall off the PvP mode you’re screwing over the majority of the playerbase because a minority doesn’t want to play the majority of the game.


The orginal WoW devs designed TBC and it is when they also were able to expand upon PvP and addd arenas and PvP resilience. However even in Vanilla they had separate PvP gear on vendors. So yes it was separate. That separation was only increased in TBC.


Not true. There is a twitter quote from Holinka in WoD where he states it’s a misconception that PvP is a minority. He states just as many people participate in PvP as they do raids.


it was available to the top 10-20 people on a given server. It was not accessible and it was certainly not separate. Separate would imply WoD, where they pretty much disable the gear.

During MoP. During SoO. When pve had no new content for over a year and the game lost millions of subs…

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“Participate in PvP” is like saying “Doing a dungeon is endgame content.”

Arena and RBG participation is nowhere near comparable to raiding and mythic+ participation.

No, separate means separate. And it was. There were a lot of things they didn’t do exactly right in Vanilla which they improved upon in TBC. PvP gear acquisition was one of them among many other things.


Is it 2014? No? Also didn’t WOD have the worst raid participation of all expansions?

lol ok. You just keep changing the goal posts I see. Sorry I’m not going to be able to get you a quote from a dev today. Guess it’s 100% not true and everyone hates PvP now.


I feel like you need to google what separate means.

The acquisition then is the same now. Step 1. PvP. Step 2. Get gear.

If you want to argue that in BFA the quality of pvp gear, or speed of acquisition if not good enough, you are 100% right.

If you think that there was no crossover back then, you did not play.

You link a quote that references participation rates. From a period where PvE had the lowest participation ever.

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Lol and PvP got murdered after that when they didn’t split it. The point is PvP had high participation when it was split. The question is if you hate PvP so much why do you care if it’s split? I’m not asking for an advantage from my PvP gear in your pve.


I haven’t moved any goalposts. You are asserting that as many people do arenas as raiding. That’s simply not the case.

And the other quote simply proves my point, that most pvp participation is random BG’s.

Unrated, just for fun BG’s (and now maybe war mode) is the majority of PvP. Because it’s fun, accessible, and you don’t need to be a 1800+ rating player to have competitive gear in that setting. And as War Mode imbalance has shown us, useful PvE rewards often drive participation. Alliance plays when they give out Against All Odds, Horde keeps it on permanently for a 10% buff.

No one is going to want to random BG if they (A) can’t compete because it’s on a separate gear system and (B) aren’t getting rewarded with gear thats useful for the majority of endgame content.

Well I mean I have to get conflict and strife to have the optimal essence which is like a 5 week grind at 1600. Just bring back the pvp vendors like WOD and make that gear decent in pve and best for pvp. That would make everyone happy


Yes, that is why WoD was a smashing success, because everyone was so happy…

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Huh??? this was literally how it went from B.C - WoD.
And guess when the pvp truly started to die off? LEGION, when blizzard removed pvp gear and revamped pvp.
You say resil was a disaster yet the pvp community thrived for over a decade with pvp resilience in the game.


I’m sure that had nothing to do with templates or the lack of rewards for participation, right?

Please take your own advice. PvP gear came from a vendor for doing PvP things. PvE gear came from PvE things.

The quote is from July 2014. WoD was released in November 13, 2014. The game was fine in MoP, and didn’t even have real issues in WoD until content droughts hit. You simply don’t know what you are talking about with regards to any of this.

I then showed you proof that PvP particpation was equal to that of all forms of raiding when PvP gear was separate.

You then stated this:

Which completely changes the argument to now it doesn’t matter since PvE participation was low (it wasn’t the quote is from MoP).

Then you say:

Yet we have a developer quote saying that is the case.

Again you are changing the argument as you see fit. Your original notion that separate gear equals low participation was wrong. Instead of just saying “oh ok thanks for that info I didn’t realize that” you keep arguing in an attempt to save face. It’s tiresome. I will just let the facts speak for themselves and anyone interested can read the thread and decide for themselves what they believe.


That is literally what happens now…

You really need to google this. There are a dozen sub graphs and gamer articles that depict the opposite.