the games devs dont know what they are doing
heres sentinel that has a decay you can delay if you spend 3 hp. but also lets remove the talent that gives you 2 hp per judgment so you cant extend sentinel and delay the decay along with it
you devs are weird
like how? no seriously how?
that doesnt MAKE SENSE
Just play Guardian Druid. Someone there is a furry main. Despite all of the specialization nerfs it still somehow remains top tank every season since shadowlands.
That’s just demonstrably false.
TWW S3 - 15 and up had Warrior top with Paladin close 2nd with the pushing being done mostly with warriors.
TWW S2 - 15 and up was DH and it wasn’t even close at 49% popularity.
High keys exclusively pushed by DH.
*Guardian was second that season but at 13.3% followed by paly and warrior at 12.9 and 11.9.
TWW S1 - 15 and up - Paladin with 80.5% popularity…
DF S4/S3 - DH dominance IIRC because they had access to double sigil of silence on relatively short CD which made them insanely good at locking down big pulls.
DF S2 - 20 and up was Pally 25 and Guardian 23.6 BUT the pushing was made on Guardian with a Pally healer*
DF S1 - 25 and up Paly at 53.8 (Guardian was last at 2.8) and pushing done by Paly
SL S4/S3 - Meme season 4 but it was Blood DK for both S3 and S4 since they retained their Tier set from season 3 which gave them a ton of parry and a defensive engine that was perma active when played correctly.
SL S2 - Guardian was the most popular throughout S2 but you had multiple tanks pushing the ranking at the end
SL S1 - DH 25 and up at 73.5% - the kiting meta was in full effect and DH jumps were goated.
Guardian was 2nd but it’s not like it mattered at 8.2% with the others following at 6-6-4-2 %…
So where’s that Guardian bias?
Looks like there was 2 seasons within all those expacs and S1 of MDN where Bear was a big dog…
The changes to the defensive abilities weren’t needed. The adjustment for talent tree was a great buff. Except what they did to protections ability to generate holy power was wrong. Pressing the classes main defensive cooldown really does nothing now, because it requires a holy power minigame to receive the full benefit from. While nerfing the classes ability to generate the holy power needed. You must main a Guardian Druid.
??
Lets go back to what you said.
That’s the entire quote, you didn’t mention prot balance, you said Blizz had a hard on for Bear.
It’s demonstrably false and I laid out why extensively up to where you said it started in SL.
You lied, they haven’t been top tank for multiple years, let alone multiple seasons.
You’re trying to argue on something you didn’t even mention initially.
Sure, i’ll do it.
It’s a “compensation nerf” because now you get Sentinel + Avenging Wrath. Basically, they made the most important CD of Prot even better but making it shorter so is not completely broken.
Who’s arguing.
Bear is not and has not been a top tank consistently since SL…
That’s not really an argument to be made. I wouldn’t be posting on a public forum if I would be offended about being corrected. It still doesn’t mean that Protection Paladin needed an avenging wrath nerf, or their holy power generation reduced. Going of the Original Post. I just suggested to reroll to Guardian Druid.
Who said it was?
That was never in contention because you didn’t talk about that in your first comment.
the original poster did. since that what the topic is about.
What are you arguing?
Beside OP didn’t say it was justified either, he’s saying the nerf was unwarranted.
You came in and said “go play bear, some blizz employe is a furry, bear is a top tank every season since Shadowland” which is a lie.
Found the furry
I have no idea what people are talking about. My damage is still down from last season, despite being 20 item levels higher. My single target isn’t even really up either. Survivability is down as well.
Prot, got nerfed almost universally all around. The Wings duration is an enormous nerf. The Sentinel buff is an awful buff, because you never died during wings anyway.
Just go look at the rankings on Raider IO. Paladins and DH’s are already 200 points behind DKs, Druids, and Brews.
Not possible.
You’re exaggerating your feeling of lack of progression to regression…
That just completely delegitimize anything you could say because you’ve just shown you’re incapable of making any semblance of a fair assessment.
It most definitely didn’t, the changes they made are a massive step in the right direction and made it better than it was in S1.
Rankings 2 weeks in? Please.
skill issue
post a log
Its more like 1 step forward 2 steps back. Prot got some buffs…and some nerfs which ultimately actually has it in a very similar position to season 1. you can already start to see the defensive limitations of the spec shaping up in the high end representation and that trend will continue just like in S1. Saying that ‘people aren’t pushing’ is kinda insane to say considering there is already +20’s cleared and multiple pages of timed 19s from all regions. There is also a handful of popular .1% tank streamers that have tried to push on prot pal and after reaching around 17s legit just quit and swap to BDK or bear bc defensively it starts to struggle. We also have objectively the lowest damage of all tanks currently if you go to archon and filer by tanks and ‘high keys’ you’ll see that paladin is quite literally the lowest dps… So does it really matter that we got Sentinel +AW baked together at the cost of sentinel duration if we’re still lowest overall and ST dps? And lastly attributing its lack of success to the fact that hpal is meta is not a great take. If hpal was gutted today and became unplayable I assure you prot would still not be anywhere close to the tank of choice for the high end keys.
The number is irrelevant?
If they can do that now that just means they’ll do several keys higher later.
They aren’t “pushing” by any means, those keys won’t show up on the rankings in a month, maybe not even a week.
There’s a lot of players that usually push M+ that are mostly focusing on the raid.
To point at key ranking for M+ 2 weeks into a season as if it was somehow indicative of anything beside the meta comp denotes a profound lack of perspective.
Which is it? Because that sound like 1 step forward and 1 step back if it’s back in a “similar” spot.
Not that I view it like that.
Prot rework was always going to be a process and that process is going well.
Progress is being made…
If the only issue you have is this
Then your issue is fickle.
You’re upset because when they shuffled the numbers for all tanks for the new season, some other tanks ended in a spot with “higher numbers” at the start
What would be a REAL issue, is them not tuning the numbers for a given spec when they need it.
Now that’s a legitimate concern because they constantly mess that up for multiples specs each seasons.
But they DO make tuning passes and the major one usually comes after the end of the RWF.
And then there’s another one coming some weeks after as well when they get more live data.
Remind me, what happened to Resto druid when Bear tank took over last tier?
If you have another spec from your class on the meta comp, then your spec won’t appear on it because stacking the same class is usually incredibly inefficient on top of paladin Holy/prot having forbearance that makes it that much worse…
Now it doesn’t mean Prot would take the spot if Holy was bad but ATM it removes any discussion on it even being a possibility.
You don’t even entertain the idea if your one of those players that plan to push, you just prepare all your tanks in case the tuning pass shift the meta but you can only go on what you know and what is real currently because you can’t guess the future.
Resto druids HPS was heavily nerfed while bear also got buffed. It wasn’t just the case that bear became meta and suddenly despite being the best healer it was no longer played. It just also was no longer the best healer. its raw throughput was just lower than MW monk and Rsham for phys comp.
To your point about 20’s being cleared being irrelevant I disagree. Sure that number is arbitrary in the sense that higher n higher keys will be pushed as strats improve and gear gets better. But in our current gear you can absolutely see trends in how specs are performing. If prot pally is already struggling defensively in 17s at 315-320 ilvl… You can safely assume that problem will continue as gear/key levels get higher. Like when bears n bdks are clearing 23s… Prot pallies likely will cap out defensively around 20-21s in their current state.
Our dps isnt my only issue with the spec, its just objectively something we’re the worst at. I just mentioned on that because of your fixation with sent and AW being fused being a clear indication the spec has improved. Love it or hate it, at least in TWW when we had to stand in consecrate and had the ability to play around our mastery for block% our spec actually could survive the highest content. Was that playstyle enjoyable? thats debatable…but what isnt debatable is we were significantly more well rounded defensively. Ever since the rework our core issue is a defensive limitation at the highest end relative to other tanks and its not even close. if you’ve played bear and prot pal around .1% you’d see the difference is night and day. Do keep in mind im only debating its viability at the highest end. I think for low-mid keys prot pal is actually one of the best tanks in the game for what its worth.
also a sidenote… you definitely missed the mark on this. I’m not upset at anything lol. I just disagree with your takes but I’m not upset with you or the state of paladins. I just think its clear there’s core issues to it and its a spec I enjoy so I voice the issues I see.
Lastly, Find a single prot paladin tanking keys above 1% that doesn’t take/play around the 5% DR consecrate talent. So I’m not really sure what you mean when you say that gameplay is gone.