And I’ll disagree on the front that your statement of warriors being ignored is correct.
They have listened to feedback and acted on it, but it was the wrong feedback to listen to which has designed fury into the rut that it’s currently in right now.
Fury has had some solid uncapped burst AoE previously due to the combination of Titan’s Torment and Odyn’s Fury before it got crushed due to being too overbearing in yeeting small health add waves during TWW’s S1. Which has only exacerbated the problems with fury even further with their current design.
Those specs you mention as well have troubles with their AoE toolkits where ST tuning heavily effects their AoE tuning. Outlaw only saw use this season due to some insane tuning post bug fixes that they just let go.
Fury’s AoE toolkit is stifled by it’s restrictions, I won’t change my stance on that it needs a massive overhaul to get the spec back on track to being competitive which is inclusive of removing it’s 5 target hardcap and removing the meat cleaver mechanic as a whole with adding in some more simple AoE damage components via an AoE rage dump that also enrages you be it Rampage also hitting secondary targets or as another button entirely such as Odyn’s Fury being retuned as a rage dump so Fury does get some uncapped potential due to it being partially DoT damage alongside it’s direct damage.
Regardless of Warriors having the least amount of iterative changes since DF’s talent changes, they have also been the least broken out of the gate design wise (sans the mess up of fury’s tuning this xpac due to the crying of others during S1). Now that the cracks are evident due to that knee jerk nerf there’s hope we do see significant change to fury in the future. But that will not be happening anytime soon.
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Fury Odyn etc. was only crazy for like two raid fights where it was mostly padding and we have been suffering ever since. in all other forms of content.
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About the same as where we were looking LAST patch cycle. So yes it is fair to start to worry
Basically over the years more time is spent on rotational boring shi t and less time on reactive or creative play with utility as its been stripped away.
Im curious on what the issue with meatcleaver is. I agree on your takes on overly centralized raging blow, which isnt as bad now with the tier 4 incentivizing more BTs to set up a T Blast spam, but i agree raging blow has been to heavily relied on as a filler. I personally like the Meatcleaver set up, i just wished they have gone for 75% instead of 65% damage.
The problems with Meat Cleaver are very much around a few key points.
ST and AoE being linked, so any tuning to either effects the other damage profile no matter what. Losing both ST and AoE when being nerfed for ST is awful. Which unfortunately fury’s copped a fair few nerfs to for this very reason in the past where it was doing “too much AoE” so they just nerfed their ST attacks as well since there wasn’t a way to nerf them any other way.
Gameplay is not really that fun (imo), it provides next to no change of pace between ST and AoE you’re just hitting WW/TC every 5th GCD while watching your WA count down while you faceroll your ST rotation until your nose bleeds.
These are also two big reasons why Frost DKs had their AoE reworked which acted in a similar manner and that spec is much better off for it too.
Fury would benefit greatly from it’s AoE being focused soley on WW/TClap/TCrash and an AoE rage spender. Which would also fix the issues of being hardcapped as well as allowing for fury to not be negatively effected in it’s tuning when it cops nerfs to either side of it’s ST or it’s AoE.
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Not just dps warrior, prot war is also in crap show now. MT has no survivability after losing SB, and Colossus has no dmg.
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the easy answer here is a full rework of warrior and adding a 4th spec but its a lot of work… and the question is… IS BLIZZ WILLING TO DO THE WORK?
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the warrior team, if there is one, is probably all DEI
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I disagree here, as improved WW is literally a built-in slider they can dial up and down to their heart’s content to counter any buffs to the ST abilities.
This alludes to a bigger issue, which I’ve seen you touch on in other threads. No spec tree diversity. We’ve become the muddied down Jack-of-all-trades. I’ve been running OF the last couple days for funsies to see how the damage translates, and it’s such a non-factor in ST, not to mention the talent gymnastics required just to take it. The AOE is almost directly comparable to TR over a whole dungeon, which isn’t saying much.
We need a talent tree pruning to free up about 2-3 talents, and they gotta do something to increase the effectiveness of fury bleeds. Over on the BT side of the fury tree, change Bloodcraze to allow BT crits to extend the duration of all active bleeds. Or for Slayer have Reap The Storm procs extend the duration of all active bleeds by 3 seconds or something, so we can try to extend the uncapped bleeds for higher sustained potential. Plays to the class fantasy of the frenzied warrior.
MT already kinda solves this problem by introducing the Thunder Clap factor. 2-3 extra talent points from tree pruning would open up more utility, and any buff; literally any buff to OF or TR compliments the little bit of missing large AOE.
Also, the 5-target cap HAS to end. Non-negotiable. Failed experiment. Anything intended to be an AOE ability softcaps at 8 by default. Especially for MT. We’d all quit complaining if we could just mash TC and be able to compete with the DK’s, Pallies, and hunters.
I remember all through DF having defined AOE/ST talent builds. If the norm is intended to be Slayer for ST and MT for AOE, that is perfectly fine. Unfortunately they’re trying to keep both middle of the pack and it’s automatically gimping us.
As a final solution, just give us a group utility spell. How we don’t have bloodlust yet is honestly baffling, particularly for what a haste driven spec we are. We’ll shut up about the rest of everything and sit with our 5-target dunce caps in the corner if we can at least provide something other than massive pool noodles for our groups.
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The meat cleaver side of things is fine, at 65% we should be good there. It’s not our base kit that’s the issue, it’s the extremely bad AoE cool down talents. Roar and Spear are barely worth using. If there was another talent with even a hint of better raw stats or CDR, it would most likely mean we don’t bother with Spear or Roar. Ravager and Bladestorm are meh, Unhinged does most of the work for them. Though Bladestorm is more useful to buff rampage. Odyn’s Fury is a meme, which is sad for a strong signature ability.
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This is like 90% of the problem, in raid we’re fine, good even.
In M+ 20s of uncapped burst aoe accounts for more damage than like 3 solid minutes of 1-5 targets.
We used to be fine not long ago, in Shadowlands/DF we did a lot of burst aoe, it was widely considered a fury warrior niche.
People raging about ww cleave is a direct byproduct of the rashanan kneejerk nerf to OF and Tormented Titan
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I’ve beating that drum since the 11.1 patch notes lmao. “signature and powerful” they said.
That said, I’ve been dabbling with it lately just to see where it’s at. If it had long track bleed potential, it’s also a solution to the AOE issue. Double the bleed duration or give us a talent interaction to extend it, it opens up windows for creative, unique sources of uncapped competition while the AI tuning monkey keeps the 5-cap “specialist” dream alive.
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Hey, at least we’re beating MM Hunters in AOE now XD. That nerf they just caught is BRUTAL.
warrior and rogue seem to have been both struggling hard
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you sure about this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNaO4hmm0Xw
2:45:14 critcake was gapped by 23% by a post-nerfed MM in overall damage
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Critcake: these buffs aren’t closing the gap at all.
Blizz: critcake is still completing keys at the highest level, therefore Fury can compete at the highest level.
#thelogicthatbindsus
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Get ready for the Prot warrior nerfs. Most likely gonna smoke Fury Thane as well. GG Blizz, GG.
Probably just Thane tier specific nerfs moreso than prot itself. Which Fury will cop as collateral damage for once this xpac like Arms has been copping every single patch 
.
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