There have been many threads on Scaling and regardless of the moral dilemma on whether Scaling/Templates have any place at all in an RPG ( gear based game ) is usually the big debate. I digress and want to point out why it can’t work in SL and makes it impossible for the Devs/PvP balance team to work on PvP. I posted this in a Alt gearing discussion which is why people argue for any Scaling in the first place.
So if you want ANY actual PvP tuning in SL be happy Scaling is gone. We the players can identify outlier problems faster…report them and the Devs actually can now tune them.
The power gap in SL will mainly be from Renown, Conduits, Soulbinds, Legendaries, Trinkets and Scaling can’t factor those in properly.
The fact that there is no scaling and elite PvE gear is better in all situations means that they never have to do any balancing. PvP is a setaside for elite PvEers, who are intended by design to easily win every game.
Higher item level gear should always be better than lower level. The only issue is we don’t have a PvP stat anymore. However you at least have competitive PvP gear if you get a high enough rating.
Balancing is easier when you don’t have systems confusing what needs to be balanced. It’s way easier to do balancing passes when you can clearly see a talent, conduit, or legendary etc is overperforming. BFA Scaling system prevented that.
PvP is for all players this is a gear based game RPG and obviously increasing your item level will make you more competitive as it’s always been intended since the very first day of vanilla.
Seems you have an issue with PvE gear as your talking point but that has nothing to do with scaling. We needed to remove scaling to save PvP and now we can clearly look at it and improve on it.
*Bad implementation of [hidden] scaling did not help,
fixed that for you.
WoD pvp gear upscaling worked. In the past there has been item level upscaling in bgs, but it wasnt enough.
That is assuming there is a class balance team for any game mode. Nothing prevents effort being made, but there are a lot of excuses.
For argument’s sake - assume locked item level, locked secondary stats, disabled pve trinkets. Do you think the class balance would be any better?
Look at the classes that have been “bad” for 2-3 expansions if you count beta previews lol!
Legion had templates and the pvp class balance was not any better.
It had pve legendaries and the class balance was not any better…
Power gap does not need to exist. There’s no reason to lock pvp gear behind rating unless the goal is to keep pvp participation low.
I fear the inevitable knee jerk covenant nerfs and having to swap, only to get that nerfed and move onto the next one. We all know it’s going to happen.
Yes Templates was the worst system ever put in this game and Scaling is right behind it. I uninstalled Legion when I found out PvP trinkets didn’t work in PvP and gear doesn’t matter so I can’t build my character which means there is no point in playing.
Yes it does it’s the reason we play an RPG. We are here for shiny things that give us power then own it up with that power. If gear doesn’t matter why bother. Sorry but RPG PvP is why we play and removing the RPG means there isn’t any PvP. Something that has been voiced over and over again. However this thread wasn’t about that specifically just that Scaling can’t work in SL due to other issues.
That is how you increase participation when you see awesome PvP gear at a vendor you should want to RBG and do Arena. That is the one reason I got into Arena in TBC/Wrath when gear was locked behind rating. It provides motivation to improve and get better gear.
Casual PvP should have casual gear. Just like all other casual aspects of the game.
It might or might not think they have focused so much with the delay on them so that doesn’t happen. The issue will be just everything else that comes with it like Renown ranks, conduit ranks, etc.
There has to be paths to earn gear in PVP that makes sense. BFA broke that and Legion removed that possibility.
As for PVE vs PVP gearing…I don’t think we will ever seen PVP gearing on par with PVE gearing. This is because of the arrival of M+ and the existence of raiding.
But what I do want to see is better stat allocations from PVP vendors.
Return of more enchant slots as an enchanter has me grinning from ear to ear. And having gem slots is important as well.
Templates had good intentions, badly implemented. The main downside of it was that there was 0 customization.
It might be the reason you play. PVE gearing doesnt work the same for PVP because pve mobs dont gear up over time and the classes are not remotely balanced
That is how you dramatically drop pvp participation across the board. People that do arena - “want” to force “low rated” people into arena so they have an easier time. If you arent high rated you will get nothing and might as well do pve.
Low rated does not necessarily mean less skill. It could mean your class/spec is bad at arena or you are not playing with the class youre supposed to play with.
It is a bad system and has an abundance of “carries” because the power gap between classes + gear is silly.
It WILL happen. Look at legion nerfs ruining an entire spec
I’m ok with scaling gone! Pvp players have to understand that ilevel now means from working through all content . Raids mythics pvp quests. Ilevel is ilevel. I like it. PvP gear is never gonna equal pve gear. We need to accept that and move on. Do whatever it takes to have a high ilevel with relevant stats. If I have to have a high vers set and one for raids who cares. Makes it more interesting for me. I liked having two sets anyways. You will Never convince blizz to make pvp gear equal and as easy to get as pve gear. Let’s move on. Scaling is gone!! Victory!!
You just can’t comprehend what I’m saying because you believe you were chosen by the Light to win every match easily with your epeenieweenie gear.
They will not balance. They do not need to balance at all. Stop pretending that somehow you getting 100% guaranteed 1 shots in skill-free PvP means you have made some sort of sacrifice that will permit devs to balance classes in PvP.
Yep. No skill whatever. It’s fake PvP for PvEers like you who want to pretend you’re doing PvP without having to worry about fighting players.
Just imagine if raiders were required to get most of their raiding gear from doing PvP…
Dude it doesn’t matter what I think. It only matters what I can do! I miss pvp tier sets and gearing up in PvP too. It’s gone. Never gonna return while ion is in charge. Scaling is gone and that is as big a victory as we can ask for. Get over it man
“Getting over it” for most players will just be a matter of quitting the game. Go ahead and join the crowd that is only in it for that flowing spigot of free stuff. But don’t act like you’re doing PvP when you’re getting your free guaranteed wins.
i think most players just adapt with what systems are given us. We can lodge our complaints here and hope something comes of it but otherwise…we will keep paying 15$ a month and trying to figure out what works. join us or not. i dont think losing members of the pvp community is a top priority for wow…
PvPers have no problem with higher ilvl gear giving you an advantage if that gear us earned via PvP and PvErs can’t steamroll PvP with their gear.
Gear earned via PvP is stated horribly, and you won’t see much benefit doing mythical or raiding in a full set whereas the opposite is true for pve gear.
All blizzard has to do is make PvP and pve their own separate endgame (once again) with gear tailored for each playstyle while being not as desired in the opposite.
Yea been saying that is the ONLY fix because these Template/Scaling systems not only are wrong for the game but now they can’t work in these new borrowed power systems each expansion.
A PvP item should look like this
Helm 190 Item level
+55 Haste
+45 Mastery
+25 PvP Stat
We need to get rid of Versa it’s bad for the game and we need a PvP stat as a 3rd stat. Of course Blizzard doesn’t want to do this at this time but it’s the only fix in an RPG PvP game.
Well that isn’t the main reason. The main reason is Versa is an awful stat. It doesn’t make your build it’s a bonus stat. You actual build is composed of your CORE stats Crit, Mastery, Haste. When you have to sacrifice your core stats to use a bonus stat for defensive purposes it feels bad. You don’t get to play your character.
Then the PvP trinket bonus is even worse since it’s a Versa stat amp. Well I don’t want to stack Versa!!! Get it off my gear it’s in the way of playing a real build. I need to hit Haste and Mastery hard caps. So I’m trying to get away from Versa and if I’m not stacking it then the Trinket bonus is now worthless too. It’s a mess!
We just need a PvP stat as a 3rd stat so you can still play your character and make a functioning build. Fortunately in BFA I was able to stack Mastery because Versa just isn’t good. Versa is only looked at in PvP because ppl want it’s Dmg reduction but you shouldn’t have to sacrifice fun builds so you have it.
This is why in PvE people aren’t like omg let me get that Versa… It’s a trash stat it doesn’t make a build. Versa is meant to compliment your build as a bonus.
Well BlizZard considers versa the unofficial PVP stat but if PVE gear is going to have easier access to versa then I agree it is pointless to have it at all.
By putting in place a PVP stat that should free up a second secondary stat that is desirable for players (eg mastery, haste/crit) but BlizZard is reluctant to do it for some reason.
everyone knows why blizz is reluctant to make a pvp stat or pvp tier sets…we all know. blizz wont come right out and say it but how can a pve player who does dungeons enter a pvp setting and dominate…pves want to be able to blow stuff up in every enviroment. except when it comes to pvp they dont want to grind for it. they want their dragonslaying gear to do it for them. there would be only pvp players in pvp enviroments…less money for activision…$$ thats the reason. whos the bulk of the money givers…dragonslayers. that is the entire crux of the pvp situation we are in now. So we get trolled with crappy pvp items no one wears.
…its like getting a little box of raisens in your halloween bag as a kid. no one wants that stuff…but thats what blizz gives pvp players. pvp players just want some real candy too
i agree 100 percent with everything you said, during cata i had to do raids and heroic dugeons to get trinkets for pvp to boost my dps by 15-20 percent, because if i didn’t, i would be at disadvantage in pvp.
