They’re a pop culture reference to the recent God of War. Context means a lot less when it’s coming from the mouths of something that wouldn’t exist if GoW didn’t exist.
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I’m waiting for the “Sylvanas was right all along” but she’ll step down and lead from the shadows narrative. What is that number 4 or 2?
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I am not familiar with GoW at all and I did not know they were references until I went to WoWpedia to get the quotes. And frankly it wouldn’t be hard to write that kind of philosophical dialogue either way.
Even if it is a reference, the fact that Teldrassil is even brought up is significant to me.
Again, it could be Blizz being fake-deep but it at least shows they know there’s moral question. The problem is, the writing team was never great at these things.
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3, purge all the traitors.
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Depending on how this goes it could destroy the credibility and authority of the Warchief. If that happens then along with Sylvanas I have to say that the Warchief position should go.
It turns out that diversity is our weakness. If Sylvanas can’t pull this off and unite the Horde then it will just prove that no singular race can be in charge of the Horde.
This situation we currently are in should potentially shape the Horde for maybe the rest of Warcraft.
I think Sylvanas embodies what the horde should be better than any previous leaders and I totally support her ideologies and decisions.
- Would be my choice of the options listed.
Alternative better option: Make the forsaken it’s own faction and I’ll join that and fight the horde and alliance (:
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3
I do not want to see you ruining Horde for the great honor.
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It doesn’t really matter what happens to Sylvanas so long as she stops being Warchief. What matters is that the Horde display an understanding of what went wrong and move to fix it.
The warchief position must die. To install a new warchief with the same unchecked power after everything Sylvanas and Garrosh made us do would be the epitome of not learning our lesson. If Blizzard really cannot write factions without a single charismatic character at the helm keep the warchief title but make it only applicable to military matters and create a council that handles foreign affairs that have the power to remove the warchief from office.
Now I know all the arguments against this and most of them are just meta arguments. “This won’t stop Blizzard from making the Horde villains in the future!”
This isn’t about that. Blizzard will do what Blizzard will do. It is about showing that the Horde realizes the folly in the current government structure that allows for horrible dictators to take control and plunge the world into chaos and creating a way to mitigate that risk. If the Horde doesn’t do this after two failed warchiefs then it hasn’t learned its lesson. If the Horde doesn’t learn from what went wrong this time they are doomed to be nothing but idiot savages for the rest of their history.
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Warchief position is not the issue.
Getting bad Warchiefs is the issue.
If Blizzard didn’t keep giving the Warchief position to individuals designed to antagonize both factions and create conflict, the position would be fine.
Oh my god.
I can reply
What devilry is this???
Ok, ignore me now, I just was lurking and noticed I could reply again.
OFF TO THE LOUNGE.
For the record, I vote option 5: Let the Old Gods win.
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Same here.
You can’t kill the boogeyman. >:)
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In a world where we only had Thrall and Vol’jin as warchiefs? Correct. The position would be fine.
We aren’t in that world. We are in a world where our government structure has caused the deaths of thousands, if not millions of people and forced us into two civil wars in 10 years.
My argument is purely from an in-universe perspective. Not meta. But from the perspective of the people who live in Azeroth it would be immensely irresponsible for the Horde to keep its current government structure after seeing so much death and destruction come from it.
Our next warchief could be the reincarnated soul of Thrall, Anduin, and Me’dan all fused into a single being of supreme goodness and it wouldn’t matter. We’ve made the mistakes. We need to make sure those mistakes cannot happen again.
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We could be in that world.
I think your argument is illogical.
As an American, I’d say we’ve had good and bad presidents. Does the potential for getting presidents I think are bad mean I want to abolish the position?
No.
I don’t think the potential for having ill-fitting individuals in leadership positions means we need to abolish those leadership positions.
I think people from an in-universe perspective can realize certain Warchiefs suck and certain Warchiefs are good, and act accordingly to get a good Warchief.
If Blizzard would just reinstate Vol’jin or give us a fitting Warchief and let him/her be, then the faction will be fine. I don’t think the Horde needs to democratize or experience another political shift for the Horde playerbase to enjoy the game.
No. We can’t. The ink is dry and we’ve made too many mistakes. We can’t just dumbly go back to the old way having endured what we’ve endured.
Your example doesn’t work. We can impeach a bad president. A warchief can’t be removed outside a trial by combat, which we’ve seen fail with Garrosh and isn’t working to stop Sylvanas.
Civil War is not a viable way of removing bad leaders. We need less self destructive options.
Imagine you’re reading a book and the protagonist finds an ancient scroll. He reads from it and triggers an apocalypse. Through the story he stops the apocalypse but decides to leave the scroll intact. He doesn’t even hide the scroll. He leaves it where he found it knowing full well it can be read again, but it’s fiiiiine because he’s sure nobody would ever repeat his mistake.
Sounds like a really dumb protagonist to me.
That is what you’re advocating for the Horde. That we, after experiencing two civil wars, remain ignorant to the obvious problems in the way we elect leaders and do nothing to fix this glaring problem. You want us to just go on as if it never happened and just blindly trust that another evil warchief will never rise to power.
That is the story of a Horde who has not learned anything from their experience. That is the story of a Horde that doesn’t deserve a place on Azeroth because they refuse to learn from mistakes.
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While rare that I agree with Yagarr, I agree here. I’m of no mind to scurry about apologetically promising to reform the structure of the Horde just because the writing team keeps deciding to write morons into the position.
You CAN come up with some development whereby the individual racial leaders have more input than they did previously, but that would be more akin to forming a Cabinet for the Warchief.
Never doubt the writers. With a Horde Democracy, you’d just have 51% of the Horde voting to go to war with the Alliance, instead of one crazy Warchief.
And afterwards, the Democratic Horde would still blame it on one person. And the Alliance would be written to accept that as justice.
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We literally can.
Both Thrall and Vol’jin could still be Warchiefs.
It does work, because your argument was that because we have had bad leaders in a position of authority we need to remove the position itself, not the leader.
I agree Civil War is not the best way to remove bad leaders. I opt for a collective opposition by the near entirety of the Horde and Sylvanas, upon realizing she has virtually no support left, making the smart decision and stepping down.
What I’m advocating is for Blizzard to give the Horde a good Warchief and leave him/her be.
No, I want the Horde to be thoughtful and for the Warchief to be sensitive to the fact that he/she needs public support to remain Warchief, or risk being deposed.
You’re not understanding what I am saying.
We can live in a world with Thrall as warchief. We cannot live in a world where Sylvanas was never warchief. Not without bronze dragon shenanigans.
My argument is that because we’ve had bad leaders in a position of absolute power that cannot be contested or revoked that we must look toward changing the way our government works so that another Sylvanas can’t happen.
I mean, a supernatural entity literally hijacked out line of succession and impose an evil warchief on us. That is not okay.
If not remove the position at least create a way to check its power so a bad warchief can’t plunge us into another civil war.
You’re still looking at this as a one time incident that once solved will never come up again. That is a meta perspective and is not what we are discussing.
Even if the next warchief is the incarnate of all that is pure in the world it doesn’t change the fact that if we leave the warchief as an autocratic dictator for life that can unilaterally choose their successor we have proven that we’ve learned nothing from our mistakes.
You want to leave the apocalypse scroll as is because you want the writers to keep it closed, but that wouldn’t resolve the narrative issue of the scroll still being there in the first place.
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What option is Blizzard pushing for? Because whatever it is, that’s the option I don’t want.
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I honestly think the Horde narrative is beyond saving at this point.
Not because I don’t think that the writers will pull a resolution out of their collective rear ends, but because we’ve now established that the writers are incapable of writing any other story for the Horde.
Look at it this way: Starting with the end of WotLK, and through Mists we dealt with the “Evil Warchief” story where the players were forced into both working for and working against him. The writers then put all the blame on him (remember, in Cata they were very plainly stating that he had the full support of the Orcs) and dusted their hands of the problem.
The next two expansions had very little to do directly with the Horde, but Warlords established that the Orcs were just chomping at the bit for war and genocide and Legion had, well, Stormheim and Sylvanas’s end run for more Val’kyr.
Now we’re in BFA, and it’s like we’re right back into the middle of Cata as far as Horde story direction.
What does this mean? Simple: No matter what resolution is chosen, the writers have now established a pattern where they’ll ignore the Horde story for a while, then shoehorn a villain into the leadership role, and away we go.
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