San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed}

Community General Discussion
5401

The forsaken were invited to the horde for the multitude of reasons, one being that the horde believed that the Forsaken were wanting to cure their condition and become human again. They also would result in the establishment of a strong foothold in the eastern kingdom something that the Horde could desperately use. The sympathies some had for the Forsaken’s plight as well as the boon having a stronghold in the Eastern Kingdoms so close to places like Gilneas (That was closed off at the time) Southshore, Arathi ect ect. Was too hard to pass up.

Demon Hunters were a completely different ordeal entirely, not only are they a group of people that would only reasonably be seen on the front-lines. But they were only released under the most special of circumstances the invasion of the Legion. They have proved themselves as not as evil as was thought.

Death Knights are another class that would only reasonably be seen on the front-lines as otherwise most of the population would fear them and they only go into cities when necessary lore-wise.

Now you could say that a race like the San’layn could also be a front-lines only class. But I disagree it is unreasonable for an entire race to be on the front-lines. Even the Void Elves a race that is supposed to be very few in numbers have their citizens. What makes this bad is that they need blood as a food-source. I highly doubt that there is some blood-market where they can get blood for free and don’t feel the need to feed on others. Not only this, but what could they offer to either faction? They don’t have any lands or unique tricks like The Void Elves and their void portals. The only thing they could help with is in battles and even then with their few numbers, it wouldn’t make much of a difference and both factions wouldn’t benefit much from letting them join them at all.

San’layn are vampiric by nature, a sad truth is that they have to harm people in some way almost all the time for them to sustain themselves. They aren’t mindless at all no, but I highly doubt that they aren’t inherently evil due to how they have to survive, by harming others.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that the person in question isn’t me. I simply made a thread and in fact, the only reason I am posting here now is because you mentioned my thread. I can even get on another one of my players that is on retail to prove that I am not whomever you are talking about through the pet collection system and how you can detect alts through that. I simply wish to give out my subjective opinion which is that I believe that any vampiric race by nature, is inherently evil. If you do not wish for me to post in this thread again I won’t, I’m open to discussion as I would like to not be ignorant of other people’s arguments and opinions. However, like I said if you wish for me to simply not post here either that is completely fine as I will comply and simply stay in my own thread. Thanks for reading :grinning:

5402

Thank you for at least being respectful about it. I said that because, no joke, there was someone constantly bugging me on other threads, bringing up the fact that San’layn are ‘worse than this’, trying to bait me into arguments on other threads, bumping his own thread with alts, and even going so far as bothering me outside of the forums. It’s why I’m rather uptight lately.

Granted, I didn’t mention your thread specifically, but that’s a fair point. There was a thread up already completely bashing the ideas we had, bumped by alts, and it just gets on my nerves to be pestered on a regular basis where I’m just trying to get a race playable in game via Allied race or customization (IF DONE RIGHT).

I like regal, noble vampires, those we were introduced to in Wrath, and time and again have enjoyed seeing the lore fragments we’ve been given.

To the rest of your arguments, admittedly I’ve gone through the circles of logic back and forth on a constant basis, and really don’t feel like repeating myself. You have your points, of which to you and many others are completely valid–and that’s just fine.

But to me, this concept is entirely possible, because the idea of ‘antihero’ and channeling the need to feed/destroy (like Death Knights) into entities far more evil is very appealing. I don’t like the idea of intelligent undead with free will being just mindless, bloodthirsty puppets. For example, not every forsaken is with Sylvanas, and Death Knights have variant emotion (this heavily depends on the Death Knight itself).

All in all, thank you for clarifying. I don’t mean to send a punch, but as you can imagine, the person I am referring to just really seems to not want to leave us alone. I’m glad you at least don’t seem to be them and can be kind while still disagreeing and giving your points.

Of course, baseline, it’s a matter of subjective disagreeing at ‘all vampire races are evil’, but again that one is variant on morality and opinion (Especially in a fantasy game).

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5403

All the races have to harm to eat. You kill animals to eat there meat. So I don’t by that excuse personally. Everyone is fine killing to eat. Death knights were made by the lich king to inflict pain to suffer in undeath. Or else they will suffer in health. But it stands to reason there are ways that undead would be unaffected by this with some magic tweeking. Perhaps the nightborne would be glad to help for example with a type of arcwine and some red shadow berries or something native to the shadowlands.

The san’layn are darkfallen blood elves. So I would find them having a unique connection to current day blood elves and nightborne fun. I know there was a comic written for Nightborne x Undead relationships. So I would think it more fitting to have some connections with San’layn. Seeing as the elf and human connections were explored in horde through undead/alive relations? Lol…

I would love to see the San’layn join the horde soon. Shadowlands seems like the perfect time. I really hope Blizzard changes there plans and includes more allied races especially the San’layn.

I have to wonder where in Org they would hang out. I think the under the Drag would be a cool place for them to hang out. Perhaps they can start carving up the cave and have and upper city there. Some bats hanging around and some renovations.

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5404

Also, to add, this is a war game, and people are on the regular being killed. One could actually argue that, morally speaking, San’layn would be even better than living races because they don’t need to actually kill to eat. So if they could drain from a willing ally? That could lead to potential and they’d ‘never have to kill’.

Of course, again, war game and killing, so yes, there’s going to be a lot of death. As there should be, this isn’t ‘Let’s Dance With PansiesCraft’ like Baine would like it to be. (I might not like Sylvanas, but I also dislike Baine. A lot.) So consuming what you kill is wasting the body even less.

Even if there was true peace between the Alliance and Horde (in which why can’t I have my BLOODY NEUTRAL GUILDS BLIZZARD), there’s still other evil entities out there on a regular basis that have a looooooong list.

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5405

You could have the San’layn join the Horde by a technicality through Dreven’s deal with Sylvanas.

Feeding has all sorts of different choices. There are no shortages of enemies, criminals, or even those who wish to become thralls for the “gift” one day.

They will never get the gift.

5406

Yeah, the problem is if they joined via Sylvanas, they’d be 100% run out by the rest of the Horde by now even if they tried to make a name for themselves separately. If we saw them join at the time and work with the Horde, then have a group fragment from Sylvanas, we’d have more of a chance in that light.

Sylvanas loyalists are being walked around in chains within Org, after all. And it’s no surprise, really, I mean she proved she doesn’t care about the Horde. I’d love to have San’layn loyal to Horde as opposed to a Banshee Queen that went off the rail.

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5407

DKs are objectively worse. San’layn feed off blood, DKs feed off of the suffering of the living. Not just quick and painless deaths, but by actively seeking to cause agony.

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5408

The term evil is thrown around so much, but honestly I hate the word simply because it is so vague.
“Evil, in a general sense, is the opposite or absence of good. It can be an extremely broad concept, although in everyday usage is often used more narrowly to talk about profound wickedness”

This is the literal definition of evil and it is already incredibly vague. What evil and “Wickedness” can mean for one person can be completely different for another. Does a race trying to survive truly make it evil just because they have to harm others in the process? Evil is a completely subjective term honestly, and can only be used the right way (in my opinion) on things that are without a doubt wicked, things like someone commiting genocide. That would be an act that would be considered evil. But what makes harming others so that you can survive evil? It’s all a convoluted question of morality and your take on it. Someone plighted with the curse of vampirism might consider the one trying to end them because of their plight “evil”. Because they are just trying to survive like everything else. In-fact this question of morality is displayed in some fiction surrounding vampirism, depicting humans dragging others out of their homes to drive a stake through them (Though in WoW this could be a bit different because undead like San’layn work differently than your stereotypical vampire.)

It’s all just a question of what you subjectively think is morally correct and morally wrong to be honest.

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5409

Yes. I was suggesting it for any San’Layn civilians. Perhaps there are some eho weren’t in the elite squads such as the neophytes. Who may struggle with the curse.

Shadowlands could add lore to support healthier undead. Of course the warriors that join may not choose this route and still enjoy sating bloodlust in combat. I think that duality of having the option to sate it but choosing to sate it through bloodshed would make certain San’layn stand out as monstrous. Which would be a nice way to highlight former scourge heroes that join the horde. Death knights already need to to inflict pain to be healthy. Im sue San’layn would be fine. I would be interested to see the difference between a commoner civilian San’layn and a horde frontline warrior. Or the perspective a San’layn healer would take. In ICC we see San’layn blood knights. I wonder if we would see them as holy healers or something and if the blood curse effect that or not.

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5410

Well nearly all of the allied races were introduced under Sylvanas. I don’t think it would be too strange that the San’layn would demand something for Dreven’s sacrifice.

I think it would be pretty neat if they were politically “talented”.

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5411

I just sure hope that the victims aren’t anemic, hopefully they have quite a bit of blood. Hemmorrage shock or whatever it is called can surprisingly feel like hell. But I’m just an exaggerator it might not be that bad for some dudes that get hit by 50 arrows in their everday life.

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5412

True. If this were to happen we’d need a ‘back in time’ or ‘flashback’ quest where we’d see them actually accepted. I feel it’d be a cop-out, but it’s be better than nothing. Likely something they’d pull if we ended up with San’layn as just customization options, really.

Yeah the civilian aspect is a really good point, which is similar to forsaken civilians. Those really aren’t spoken about much. But non-combat-savy Thalassian elves (and maybe humans? Night Elves? MORE? We don’t know the extent of the vampyr curse) are a very interesting case here. They can’t sate matters via combat. So would they draw from friends and family that allow it? Would there be enough people willing to do that? I don’t know.

Also a very good point, and the flaw in the “let’s drink from the willing” idea. There’d either need to be many willing to donate on a regular basis, or a healing magic that promotes cell production (something I actually have in my own urban fantasy novel to cover the anemia issue, with consequence of weakness if used too often of course). On that note… yeah, that’s a good point :stuck_out_tongue: Our characters are bombarded on a constant basis and lose a TON of blood, are healed, and get back up again to fight some more maybe a day or so later. The ‘biology’ of healing magic might be rather fascinating in this case.

It leads to the question: Does healing magic also promote bone marrow blood production? And if so, what are the consequences? Surely your energy intake needs to drastically increase, leading to both you needing more fluids and foods.

This also brings about the topic that those living that engage in combat, of whom are malnourished, are probably even worse off than in reality due to healing most likely sapping the body’s resources and needing to intake more energy.

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5413

I think the thirst of the San’layn is a good topic, and a nice way to bring Kael’thas back int this discussion. During his time in Revendreth I’m sure he’s learned new ways the Venthyr sustain themselves without the need to feed. Or at the very least types of blood and soul/anima magic to provide a source for the San’layn wanting a different way under their former prince. This all just loops back to me rooting for Kael’s redemption arc and his bringing the San’layn into the horde properly after Sylvanna’s deal with Dreven seems to have fizzled and become forgotten.

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5414

True that. Granted I don’t want the idea of vampires to be destroyed, like how zombies are still preserved via forsaken and the point made above where DK are worse. I still firmly believe that channeling the need to feed at enemies isn’t evil at all–they’re killing anyway.

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5415

This is a reason I was hoping we would deal with them on the Horde side and was hopeful of them becoming an allied race.

One of the reasons I’m really into San’layn is their story. Seeing them free of the Lich King, unsure of what to do, and desperate to survive because if their situation and enemies on all sides, it would’ve been cool to see how they really are and be sympathetic. Their plight would fit them being members of the Horde quite well and would be worth them appearing in the Alliance war campaign just so the Alliance can have a fist bump I am awesome moment.

As it stands, I’m still worried that they’ll be thrown in with Sylvanas’ ragtag Dead Heads Group consisting of things like banshees because of some “ghouls before fools” posture, where they just become mustache-twirling loot pinata mooks that follow Sylvanas because evil mwhaha with all the depth and tact of spit on the sidewalk.

Hopefully we’ll see something otherwise in Shadowlands, where the San’layn assist and join the Horde during it. :bat:

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5416

Again, hope this happens. Would be sickkkk to see.

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5417

San’layn deserve to be playable! They are Horde allies after all, doesn’t that make them an Allied Race by default?

Chop Chop Blizz!

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5418

I was thinking about Orgrimmar some, and I think the Cleft of Shadow would be a great place for them, with plenty of ways to make a tunnel for their own area there. It’s always dark and spooky there, and there should be plenty of places to put some of the San’layn there. They can also hang out on the ceiling in bat form, adding to the general ambiance of the area.

Of course, I still think Deatholme in the Ghostlands is the best place for them to set up shop. The setting of Ghostlands is great for them, it’s close to Silvermoon, and they can work to make sure that invaders are thwarted and that Dar’Khan doesn’t come back, seeing as death tends to just be a minor setback.

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5419

I have been thinking about a perfect home base and I think it’s Shadowfang Keep. A haunted castle overlooking a village seems perfect for a gathering of vampires.

The interior has so much potential for a San’layn home. A few examples are the servant’s quarters, stables, kitchen/dinning hall and Arugal’s tower to serve as an inner sanctum for the leaders.

Close proximity to Gilneas might push for a fun werewolf/vampire dynamic.

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5420

I believe the alliance took back all the territories in Eastern Kingdoms.