While I’d prefer to see Horde San’layn be added as an AR with its own racials and heritage and voice lines and such, I’d take it as customization. Just not my preferred.
I’d also be interested in a potential option to theme/skin their abilities to be blood based?
I’m also not against them being added with a sub-race system.
Just throwing this out there.
Blood Torrent
I support the latter more so myself but would be happy for an actual AR too, more so for the reasons you listed in that a second visual theme for BEs would be the right move considering BEs lost visual uniqueness to give their AR on the opposing faction a second visually distinct set of options previously only available on the BE Thalassian model.
So I think it would do a lot in the department of trying to find something for BEs after losing that visual uniqueness, although it doesn’t have to be this theme though this one is by far in my top 2!
As I said before many times, I worry about San’layn and any race in general becoming a customization race. Primarily because of how Wildhammer Dwarves have been treated.
I would be all for it if those races got to be their own race as opposed to their parent race LARPing as them. I want them to have a presence in game, be apart of storylines, be recognized as that race, and so on. As it stands, it seems like customization races get slapped onto parent races with little fanfare and promptly forgotten, in-game and in development sadly.
It does make me wish a sub race system had been made before allied races became a thing. I feel like that would’ve opened the window to do things for variants of existing playable races. Maybe then we’d see Wildhammer Dwarves have a bit more love and care as a playable race.
Thus is why I lean more towards San’layn as their own playable race slot. I don’t want to just see them slapped onto Blood Elves, have no explanation for why they’ve suddenly appeared and are part of the Horde without question, and be their own race. I’d see this as a playable race as opposed to being Blood Elf customization. Not to mention that San’layn, while they are former Blood Elves, would have a different theme and even culture. It’s like comparing Forsaken to Humans. Sorta the same on the surface (both being humans), but much different in many ways.
I’m a stickler for world building when it comes to playable races. I want to make sure fans of a race don’t feel like they got the short end of the stick if some races become customization races. Moreso for something important like Wildhammer Dwarves, who get cosplaying Bronzebeards while Dark Irons are their own thing too.
Just how I honestly feel, is all. If we got more customization races, I’d want them to be treated as their own race and not just something you dress up as. 
I think the lack luster customizations combined with allowing BEs to lose visual uniqueness doubles as a sign that they apparently can’t keep up customizations with races we have.
Worgen seem lacking still etc etc, yet they snuck VEs in the core race pass, and again during an AR pass, but when asked about BEs they said they were just doing ARs atm, but then explain why an AR got in the core race pass? Then they didn’t even do all the ARs at that.
That sort of like poorly planned vibe thing they have going on wouldn’t exactly want me begging for more races either, San’layn doubling as a way to get Blood Elves a second visual theme in that regard is nice.
I understand your outlook I think both opinions are fair.
I popped into the forums, breaking my silence to support the Furbolg thread, which I encourage people to check out if they like the ideas presented here: Unofficial Playable Furbolg Discussion Thread
That said, I’ll also say I still hope the best for the community and that we eventually make a difference in getting San’layn added.
I know it’s extremely scandalous for me to have an opinion on these forums, and every time I speak, I cause a lot of pain and suffering due to my opinions that (you ready for this madness?) San’layn should be on the Horde. I know, I really shouldn’t be saying that and risk offending anyone, but I just can’t seem to keep my mouth shut.
That said, other people with the opposite opinion are perfectly allowed to have it, and I’m perfectly allowed to disagree. It’s a hard concept to grasp for some folks, but indeed, on the internet people will have different ideas/opinions, and we just have to accept that if it’s regarding pixels in a video game.
I fully respect those who disagree and think they should go on the Alliance or who want exclusively playable Venthyr (without any addition of San’layn lore or customization). Even if I personally disagree, and really want Horde San’layn, I will never insult you as a person or harass for the opinion. I will point out that I disagree, because that’s how forums go, or quote reasoning I’ve seen directly.
That said, I’ve disagreed respectfully with plenty of folks in the past who are friendly with me. It’s no secret that I’m against factions, but many of my friends are pro-faction in some fashion–and that is okay. Honestly. We can still get along due to that, so I implore people to get along when people are respectfully disagreeing with other opinions too.
If you still have an issue with me after all of that is said, kindly put me on ignore, and listen to this song:
As for San’layn, until we get fully playable Horde void elves/the faction barrier is shattered 100%, yes, I think they should go Horde. Void Elves have their own unique theme, that being the void, and can also look like regular blood or high elves. Blood elves don’t have that unique theme. If San’layn are to be customization, they should go to the Blood Elves. Undead have been a Horde thing, and I simply disagree that they fit into the Alliance. Flat out. People can make their arguments all night, and I will disagree, my opinion isn’t changing on that.
I think they should be an Allied Race, though, given they are unique enough to be that way with what was mentioned recently & on the first thread. I support that more, but if they have to be customization (and Blizzard SERIOUSLY needs to step up their game with lore, given Wildhammers should have gotten much more than they did) then they should be horde.
Again, until I can be in my Horde guild on my void elf & enter Horde Cities with no problems at all, so the total end of the faction barrier? No, San’layn should not go on the Alliance. And yes, I’m allowed to have that opinion.
On a happier note, I’ll share some art.
Art credit: https://www.deviantart.com/lessejakassru
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/734606233713115137/940429512615817296/Muninn.jpg
Art credit: https://twitter.com/luwhart
These are vampires from a project that I’m working on based on ravens. Obviously not so applicable to San’layn, who are bat-based, but we can still both appreciate some great art and look at the implications for customization.
I’d look at their claws, eyes, and teeth. The jet-black eyes are a great example of some eerie customization that can happen here. Body piercings are another thing that I’ll mention wanting for elves. (Well it should be a thing for all races but I’m an elf player, I’d like to see it on elves too.)
Cheers.
So as most people have heard by now, the next patch comes out February 22nd for the US, February 23rd for Europe:
Not really sure what to expect. The only thing of possibly San’layn interest is what happens with Kael’thas during the patch, which I’ll be keeping an eye on in case something of interest happens. There does sound like there will be a 9.2.5, so maybe we’ll see how Azeroth is faring while we’ve been gone. If I notice anything of interest, I’ll be sure to report any findings here.
Otherwise, I don’t see much else of potential San’layn interest happening, sadly. A shame, as it seemed like a huge missed opportunity to have both Dark Rangers (Blood and Night Elves) and San’layn helping the Death Knights in the Shadowlands. At least it’ll be possible to see them both involved in the future, preferably as playable Horde races of course.
On the bright side, this seems like the last major patch for Shadowlands, so we will hopefully see the next expansion announced in the near future. Hopefully sooner than later, but still! I’ll keep some hope for a playable Horde San’layn announcement, but I’ll keep an open mind. We should at the very least be back in the living world (of Warcraft!), which would make me feel better.
Whatever happens, I’ll continue to march in support for playable Horde San’layn! 
It’s ridiculous.
No Forsaken plots, no dark rangers, no San’layn and no necromancer class.
This expansion missed out on every important death expansion mark.
I wonder what sort of 9.2.5 pre expansion feature they can come up with. Some have suggested that new allied races may be introduced since the covenant races were flagged as allied races. I personally would love to see class skins.
Would be nice to have covenant class skins, and change your magics effects on your class to those magic effects. Venthyr magics may be passible for like a san’layn like blood class if done right for personal rp.
It seems we will have to watch out for the next expansion trailer after the raiding is done.
It really did lack on forsaken plotlines. But at least it explored a lot of death magics and explored themes that can be used in rp. A lot of shadowlands showed death itself isn’t very negative. It has its purpose. It’s not anything scary. There are some good death forces and bad ones, that was nice to see. I liked how it showed drust stuff and lore. It showed that they are still druidic, they aren’t exactly death or life, they are like stuck in between.
The origins of the dreadlords and the venthyr and the san’layn make sense to have simlar connections. Kael’thas even shows up in the venthyr plotline. Those magic sources are connected, I think they can work story for all those forces in the future. Kael’thas being connected to future san’layn storylines seems to be a logical plot point to follow.
And… I like how Venthyr showed they can still be druids. Which gives me hope for vampire druids some day in some form. Would be nice if they removed race/class restrictions for stuff like that. It seems even scarlet crusade members had chances to go venthyr, and the venthyr were shown to be able to use the same magics they did in life with the Stonemother still using her druidic abilities.
We still have a chance with 9.2.5 (The event that lead to 10.0) Maybe they will do something. Remember how they added allied race at the end of legion as intro to BFA. Might be the case there for some undead plot/chyropractor and other thing
Showing my support once again for my favorite WoW vampires!
Sorry, Venthyr…
I really feel like they could “remake” death or something at the end of Shadowlands and have the four covenant races become playable as they follow us back to Azeroth or something.
It could happen, though I see it as unlikely.
And there are a lot more races I would prefer over the covenant ones personally (Though, I do adore the fawns, and would totally play one).
I just can’t wait to just get this expansion over with so we can see what the next one has in store for us lol.
This is 100% where I’m at. Not only do I hate everything about Shadowlands lore and therefore the lore tied to the races (even if I like Stoneborne which, to me personally, are 5 thousand times more interesting than venthyr), but it’s getting really tiresome seeing lore I love completely be abandoned.
I support covenant races IF we also get a lot of those people have been asking for for years, and that includes lore. San’layn AR, OR customization AND lore. Dark Rangers, Ogres, Saurok, Sethrak, Furbolg, Vry’kul, there’s so many races we’ve been wanting but the shiny new thing comes around and once again, we’re forgotten.
It’d be fine if Blizzard showed even a semblance of competence when listening to community requests, but given them now saying ‘funnel everything to just the community council and we’ll only listen to them’ and then promptly adding incredibly toxic individuals to the council while entirely ignoring others who have contributed tons to the forums says a lot.
They aren’t even responding to any of the threads like housing and such like that, it’s PvP or PVE stuff, or classic.
I don’t even think there’s a customization thread on the council. It goes to show our voices will pretty much not be heard and that’s a shame after how much we’ve been trying to be heard, all of the customization/AR communities, on these very forums for all these years.
Just to be told: LOL we’ll listen now but ONLY to this council who pulled out of a hat for or saw PvE and ran with it.
Broken Draenei also come to mind.
I’d post a pic of one just because (even though we all know what they look like), but my TL3 is long dead and buried due to my long absence. Hey, there’s another nonsense system I’d love to see gone.
Ohm y god it’s Somand
You can thank Lance for my return. I had practically made my peace with leaving, but Lance was actually in the mood to play again. That hasn’t happened in a long time.
It hurts that we’re still lacking these.
Broken would be nice as well. Also, my TL3 went the way of the dodo as well.
…And her mildly less notable brother, Lancelot.
I know I say it in Discord a lot anyway but love you both. 