San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed}

Community General Discussion
7328

Speaking of which, I know several people here were interested in getting this item. As it turns out, it seems to be a random drop from various mobs in Maldraxxus:

“The Simple Tome of Bone-Binding has been found, seemingly a random mob drop in the second Shadowlands zone, Maldraxxus! This tome allows Hunters to tame undead beasts and it’s very fitting that it comes from the undead afterlife of war and strife in Shadowlands. The tome is BoP, so it can’t be traded or sold on the Auction House, but not every Hunter needs one - Undead Hunters now gain the ability to tame undead beasts by default.”

https://www.wowhead.com/news=319411/tame-undead-pets-with-the-simple-tome-of-bone-binding-from-maldraxxus

https://www.wowhead.com/item=183124/simple-tome-of-bone-binding

I’m still needing to beat up Zul on normal to get the Blood Beast item. Hoping I’ll be able to solo that raid in the near future.

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7329

So, my friend pointed out maldraxxus and my expectations for it may been the wrong way. So I’m gonna take another alt and give them a better try. I dunno how others perceive them,seems the take on covenants is varied. but supposedly if I (at least personally) see them as more a warhammer chaos themed covenant or even orks from warhammer but undead, I’d probably like them a lot better. Being that I’m a huge fan of orks and chaos in warhammer.

Going in expecting them to be forsaken 2.0 my friend thought was the wrong way to go about it. They are supposed to be more unique than that. So I’ll give them an actual try and do what my friend suggests and go about it more like undead orks or chaos kinda faction, with the warrior theme and arenas and stuff. They were my first choice after all before shadowlands.

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7330

Honestly the Maldraxxi gave me horde vibes, and the plaguedoctor and slime gave me forsaken vibes. The insanity and all lol.

Also questing in Revendryth I found a vampire diaries reference! https://www.wowhead.com/item=173705/the-venthyr-diaries

And I also found a secret treasure with https://www.wowhead.com/item=180395/nathrezim-crusaders-hauberk?bonus=6935 so lore implications are fun to speculate the “lord of dread” is or was a dread lord.

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7331

Yeah hopefully! If you need help feel free to send me a message, I don’t mind.

Yeah I agree with your friend, Maldraxxas has a very militaristic and yeah, orcish vibe. So it’s strange that I like them so much, because usually Orcish stuff I pass on hardcore. However, I do love Draka, and recall the “We protect those weaker than us” line she said at one point. The resonate theme is “The strong win”, but there’s also “we protect” too, something I enjoy quite a bit.

WHOA there friend, hold it right there, you’re not allowed to enjoy that content or mention it! Don’t you see it’s ruining vampires?! Don’t you realize that the opinion of someone that has nothing better to do than put others down is more important?! Don’t you see that you’re not allowed to like things, nor have preferences? That’s a big no no, come on now, we’re not allowed to enjoy parts of vampire media that don’t involve things that aren’t terribly ugly. (I’m being sarcastic by the way :stuck_out_tongue: I have very, very little respect for a certain someone.)

Anyway, I like L.J. Smith’s Night World better myself. It’s not as popular though. I read the Vampire Diaries series a long long time ago, but I forgot most of it. I do recall trying the show and not liking it. Same thing with the True Blood series (though with that one, I read the first book (Sookie Stackhouse series?), and decided to give it a pass. Was too boring for my tastes, not enough action. Interesting mystery, yes, and ending, but… eh.)

My favorite vampire media is definitely the new Castlevania Netflix series, 100%. I also like Hellsing Ultamite (though not when Alucard vanishes for a while :/) In terms of realism ones, I love Dracula Untold. Underworld is fun too, for the first couple movies, anyway.

And yeah, Denathius or however you spell his name has demon-like legs. So there’s a LOT of speculation that he’s connected to the Dread Lords. Would be neat if they were connected along with the vampyr curse.

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7332

I like the Vampire Diary universe, I learn about new monsters and stuff. I mostly liked the originals and that plot line. I would keep an eye out of the Mikealson’s because they are my favorite vampires! I know I saw Blade growing up, forgot most of what that’s about. The underworld stuff. Loved Hellboy, Van Helsing, and shows like Supernatural that show all sort of mythologies. I am sort of excited to check out the Kyrians, as I have already sort of spoiled myself with the plot lines during beta. And I just like the whole angel themes. Real angels look pretty weird in actuality, something out of a Lovecraft book if you really see how they are described. I am excited to see what the next patch brings after the raid. I heard their was a datamined Ardenweald raid, and those invasive beasts seem to be all over each zones (blue big guys).

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7333

They do? I chose Venthyr for my Mage, what crowd do I need to be like I’m out of touch? :rofl:

/hugs

7334

Yeah I noticed the blue monsters in Bastion while herbing. The big one is apparently Glory of the Shadowlands dungeon hero which is a pretty neat mount reward.

7335

Yea I was lucky to get the rare that drops the questline to grow one for a week on my first day of 60. I will be riding one of those bad boys throughout shadowlands (until flying is introduced probably next patch).

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7336

I don’t see Venthyr becoming playable despite what others have said in other threads. They bring up that Draka went to a Legion world so any of the covenants can leave is their argument. I personally don’t think it is that cut and dry.

But allowing more customization to the curse would work better but I can’t see a way to make that curse tied only to Horde and I don’t want to see Alliance vampires unless Horde gets to make werewolves also. I would straight up quit if Alliance got both vampires and werewolves and Horde got shafted.

So in order to make it Horde only it would have to be San’layn over Venthyr simply because San’layn are BE’s and Be’s are Horde. Venthyr on the other hand are friendly to both factions so harder to pass off imo.

Ardenweald was underwhelming for me. Ysera, Ursoc and those centaur looking creatures made that zone imo but it was missing something. It wasn’t as beautiful as I envisioned.

Revendreth just is fun for me. I love castles and gothic architecture plus I did enjoy the snooty Venthyr even though I thought I wouldn’t. Not to mention the carriage I want and those little servant things like an Igor.

“It’s Frankensteen”: Dr. Frederick Frankenstein meets Igor for the first time. - YouTube

And Maldraxxus I liked because I play most of my toons like there still is a faction war so Maldraxxus was what BFA was suppose to be in my mind. War and military like. I also like Draka, skeletons, skulls, and death. :smile: Though I was a little sad at the end of the intro. Feels like I lost another Warchief. :sob:

I use to watch the cartoon Gargoyles and they remind me of them. I could so play those guys. Very cool design imo. :+1:

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7337

That brings up a good point: If covenant members became playable and were able to come to the living world…whats to stop other characters to come back with them in the same method?

Not to mention that some consist of formerly living beings in our world. Without going into the specifics, the Kyrians are composed of beings who wind up in that afterlife and get turned into them. So what happens to Alliance members who die, get turned into Kyrians, and then come back freely? It really makes death lose a lot more meaning than it did before, and death was really debatable on its meaning throughout Warcraft in general.

It seems like it would be a lame way to bring back characters. Like bringing back Uther to lead the Kyrians on Azeroth, for example. It also muddies the factions having such other worldly races, in my opinion, as well as begs the question of what happens when they die? Do they shrug, go “that was fun!” and either are stuck back where their covenant was or do they just get to install a revolving door to the living world (yes I know we do that in-game but I’m talking story-wise)? Death just loses even more meaning in the grand scheme of things. Important NPC dies? Welp, they’re suddenly back as -insert covenant race here- and they keep coming back! How would you even begin to handle this in a lore sense?

We still have awhile to go until the next expansion, but my own personal opinion is that I don’t see them becoming playable at all. I’d personally like to see races already part of the factions and races that have been requested a lot, both of which are from the living world, become playable as opposed to otherworldly beings in the afterlife.

Shadowlands already makes death seem very inconsequential, and just having beings from the afterlife running around just becomes more of a detriment than world-building. There is a difference between an undead like the Forsaken and a Kyrian that use to be someone that came from the afterlife still in their new form.

As I said, all of this is my personal opinion. I wouldn’t say it is impossible to make the covenant races playable, but I see it more unlikely as I see more of Shadowlands, and I see more and more issues with it. If this was not in the afterlife, and this was in another planet like Outlands or on Azeroth instead, I’d be more open to covenant races becoming playable.

Again, just my own personal opinion is all. I’m sure I can go more into detail, but since I’m sleepy from all the Thanksgiving food, that’s all I can do for now.

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7338

We don’t know how the shadowlands will end. Remember Slyvanas said this world is a prison. Well she’s probably going to break it. And affect the cycle of death. For all we know we mess up the cycle of death more and they have a moral obligation by the end of the expansion to try to fix it on the outside via joining the horde/alliance. Also as I quested in Revendryth the Venthyr have models that can mount! And have combat animations. I think they share a model with nightborne males and troll females (skeleton wise) so they would also be not hard to add.

And I was sort of thinking what if we had them as plable races, they had body types so we can play a venthyr and choose a body type between the vampires and the gargoyles. That would be a better sell to those races for example, having multiple models to choose from the same race.

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7339

This is true. We don’t know what direction the story will go, so a lot can happen between now and when Shadowlands does end. That is why I’m not completely writing them off as possible playable races.

As I said, all my personal opinion. We’ll have to see where this roller coaster ride of a story takes us.

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7340

Yeah, I agree. The only thing that would be cool would be Kael’thas coming back, but we all know I’m bias because I agree that he’d make a pretty cool Blood King as undead for the San’layn. (Still have yet to see him, though I think we see him in the raid, whenever that comes out. I’ll be working on that with my Vulpera Death Knight.)

Really hoping that a connection to the vampyr is found so we have a resolution to where that curse came from in terms of the San’layn/human vampyr/Vry’kul. I remember in Island Expeditions, the Vry’kul had some extremely powerful blood magic spells. Revendreth works with soul magic, and San’layn/even Blood Elves work with blood magic. I do wonder if that’s all going to sorta come together. Never know.

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7341

This is an exception I would make with him coming back because it not only is a clever way of getting out of the Shadowlands, but he would come back as an undead as opposed to being an incorporeal being that just stepped out of the afterlife. Plus, it would give a reason for the San’layn to have more of a presence and could lead to them officially joining the Horde. This is assuming they don’t turn him into a new Sylvanas, where he is paranoid about dying again and is doing everything in his power to not die a third time.

Not sure if the Horde would be welcoming to Kael’thas coming back, but if they can redeem some characters like Illidan, I’m sure something could be done for Kael’thas. If not him, I’m sure something could be written for whoever leads the playable San’layn faction at the very least. New Blood Prince, Old Blood Prince, just gve me playable Horde San’layn, please. :bat:

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7342

If someone ever tells me I’m acting like a girl, I just turn around and say thanks. I’m fortunate to have come to know quite a few amazing women in my life and if I can be even a tiny bit like them, that’s a good thing in my book.

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7343

That’s a wonderful outlook, and far more mature than some folk have been handling things. You folk have helped me feel quite a bit better, and I thank you for that. My characters are awesome, and always will be–if people have issues, they can indeed take a hike. There’s nothing wrong with having feminine traits (even if it’s inaccurate to my characters and not even an attempt to insult that makes any sense, because very few of my male characters are feminine. Not that it’d be an issue if they were.).

Yeah to be honest, I favor one of the missing Blood Princes for Blood King–and I still find it interesting how Prince Valanar was nowhere to be found during prepatch. It could have been a matter of ‘eh, too many princes already, let’s just keep him out of this, we have enough bosses’. Or, he could now be qualified as another missing Blood Prince, because why revive Blood Queen, Taladram, Keleseth, but not him?

So it could mean a LOT… or nothing. Big mystery. I guess we shall have to see.

Edit: Also, Threads of Fate is pretty tedious, learning that now x.x

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7344

Don’t demons do that? I thought I read that demons don’t die they go back to, I forget which world, and then just come back again. Would be really stupid imo to have every being in WoW able to do that now. As you said “makes death lose a lot more meaning”.

And that FOTM villain we killed. Well, now we have to find some way to either imprison him on Azeroth or in the Shadwolands because, guess what, he can continue to come back, over and over and over . . . . Lame.

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7345

They do and, to my knowledge, there isn’t an easy way to kill them. The difference with demons and the Shadowlands is that it’s a feature unique to demons, who are beings in the living world. They’re an antagonistic creature who’s ability to not die easily adds to the dire context of them being a serious threat.

It’s also different with undead, who were forced back into the living world. They didn’t sit around in one of the afterlife areas, saw a portal open, and jumped through it to the living world without consequence. A lot of the undead personality, in Warcraft’s case the Forsaken and what should be being like the San’layn, would fall under this with their whole characters revolving around their situation.

In relation to the demons…

This pretty much fits as it would, to an extend, diminish that feature of demons. Heroic sacrifices have no meaning if people like Varian can come back as a Kyrian, fighting the good fight for the Alliance. Death just seems to become a minor inconvenience instead of adding to the direness of the situation. Not to mention that seeing beings like the Kyrians flying around Stormwind doesn’t feel right to me, especially when they could have been someone’s uncle or was someone of a difference race not part of the Alliance.

Villains coming back in an undead form can work great for storyline purposes, but it should take a lot for that to even become capable. Same with the idea of resurrection in some form. It should not be something that they go “URK DEAD” and then walk right out of the Shadowlands immediately without much effort.

When we’re done with this expansion, I don’t really see logically how, in the story, there would still be a link to Shadowlands that beings can go back and forth from. So it’s very possible that living beings wouldn’t be able to just install that revolving door to the afterlife that I keep mentioning. I do wonder if it could be possible for anyone stuck in the Shadowlands to take the means we go back and forth currently to the living world again. Sounds like something to keep in mind as we see the story.

On that note, seeing covenant races playable either mean there is a link to the living world or they’re stuck in the living world. Not sure which one would be more likely if this ever happened.

All I’ve said above is of course my own personal opinion. I’m sure there are parts that could be argued, but that is how I feel currently.

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7346

When a demon dies outside its home plane, the Twisting Nether, they simply regenerate over time in the nether.

Sargeras was using the Titan Argus’ energies to supercharge that process.

If you kill a demon within the Twisting Nether they will die forever. There are seemingly other ways to kill them, for instance Archimonde appeared to be fully destroyed during the Third War on mount Hyjal only coming back in glimpses into the past or an alternative timeline.

While untold numbers of demons yet exist within the nether, now that Argus has been dealt with their ability to come back will be slowed down immensely. Giving many much more pause in getting into dangerous situations.

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7347

Yeah there’s also this factor to consider, another thing I didn’t think of. It would feel very strange on that end as well.

Yeah, it’s no secret I really am not a fan of these covenant races being added. Not to mention, it just continues to feel like Blizzard is just blatantly ignoring or trashing other lore in the process for the ‘shiny new thing’. And it bugs me so much because it’s pretty much the same theme, yet no sign at all of lore they already established from Wrath.

It also bugs me that Venthyr legit just look like ugly elves( to me, personally. And their SIRE just… looks like a non-ugly elf). This is targeted toward those that come here and bash San’layn, screaming about elves, when in reality they’re pushing what looks like ugly elves. Plaster the twisted faces they have on a Blood Elf model (or… roll a nightborne. Which is an elf and just as ugly, if you go with the males. Sorry Nightborne. They use a similar model too, apparently. To me, Venthyr are just nightborne 2.0 with a dash of ‘trying to be a vampire while other vampire lore established in Azeroth is neglected’) and shorten ears (which you can do for Blood Elves already), and boom… Venthyr. What if Venthyr actually looked decent and nice, or had such options? People would go right away to “nope, they’re too much like elves because they don’t look bad, sorry.” Meanwhile? I’d still hate them. Because I’m tired of lore being abandoned. The lore I personally enjoy the most (vampyr curse. Wrath stuff.)

If people like them because of a lore thing, fine, while I completely disagree, it’s something I get more. I will say, I am very tired of being led on with vampyr lore (see Legion vampirates and then Alliance War campaign) only to be let down hardcore and have this theme pop up with no sign of vampyr curse lore whatsoever.

I’ve even said a number of times that San’layn could have ear customization to be bat-like, as the Blood Princes from Wrath do too. I’m just so tired of having to argue with people on that aspect. To be pushing this for a while, only to have these things pop up, and to have some to now leak into this thread and be horrid/highly toxic in general, as we saw recently. I’m grateful to those that can argue these matters maturely, but gods it gets tiresome dealing with the trolls, which now have more ammo.

Stoneborn I’d be more understanding with because they are actually a monster that looks different, and you can’t argue “they just look like an ugly elf” because they’re bat-like monsters. Venthyr, all I see are ‘you look like an ugly elf and have the same theme of lore that’s already been established, yet for some reason is abandoned for you’.

All in all? I wish Blizzard would stop using a carrot-on-a-stick for this nonsense. To be led on for so long, with this as the end result is frustrating. There’s future patches, so I have to hold out hope for something there, I guess.

But if they’re not planning on expanding San’layn lore or letting us play San’layn via customization or AR? They should just give us a ‘no’ so I can bloody move on already.

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