But who says that they want to break off? Most San’layn are pretty evil, so them staying with Bolvar and causing destruction from within the Horde sounds awesome
100% disagree there. I’d rather not have a character that’s required to be an evil mastermind, otherwise they wouldn’t be playable. I like variation, not cookie cutter. If they were required to be evil, they might as well not ever be playable because they’d just be puppets.
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I feel like you say this pretty often. I’m not sure why the plethora of examples of nuanced undead characters in lore still cannot overcome your opinion that a vampire in WoW cannot be anything but “evil.”
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Well of course they can be neutral, like dks, but that’s the least evil you’ll be getting from them
i still dont think the Belves in nazmir have anything to do with the sanlayn. theyre just playing with a new toy. i like your idea that bolvar put them in play but i dont think they are here to “make more” i think theyre ultimate mission is to kill Sylvanas or find out what her endgame is
If we go with the fact that they’re under control of Bolvar, however, that would mean that they remain puppets and can’t do as they please. They’d have no willpower. We know typical undead do have traits that can be considered evil, but it really depends on how they channel it.
- Need to kill, but if it’s used to defend people, it can be argued for good.
- In San’layn case, feeding, but that could be used against enemies and again be considered fine
- The living destroy things all the time, it’s warcraft, so killing really isn’t out of the ordinary
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I’m sorry like DKs, San’layn can’t be good. They can be neutral if pleased, but good, there’s no way
Unless you want to go all Edward
And this is why I both dislike you and don’t take you seriously, ever. First of all, there’s more to vampires than a series that does a terrible job with them. No one that wants San’layn takes Twilight seriously. Second of all, there’s nowhere in lore that states “It’s impossible for San’layn to not be evil.” Forsaken AND Death Knights, both undead and broke off from the scourge, can have varying personalities.
It’s not my fault you can’t actually be creative enough to think that through, though. /shrug
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Okay let me take this by simpler means.
The Dearg_due for example, she lures men by her song and drinks their blood to quench her thirst. Most versions of her do not describe her as good because of this.
Being not good doesn’t mean they can’t be neutral. It simply means creatures such as these can’t be good
Your argument seems to be that because you are personally not acquainted with any form of written lore involving vampires or vampiric beings presented in a positive light, with the exception of Twilight, then therefore logically it must be impossible for “good” vampires to exist.
So, the problem with that logic is we’re talking about a canon (WoW) that is continuously evolving due to the work of writers. While the stories of “evil” vampires such as Bram Stoker’s Dracula and the Dearg Due most likely serve as inspirations for lore elements like the San’layn, this is no way precludes the writers from adapting these works and tweaking their vampire stories to fit the new molds they want to fill.
The entire point of the Horde is that they are a faction bounded together by external prejudice and, in more than one instance, a uniform desire to overcome stigmas and undesirable natures. Prejudice is what resulted in the orcs founding their own nation away from humanity. Prejudice is what made the forsaken believe they would no longer be accepted amongst humanity despite being victims of war crimes. It is not beyond the pale to presume that Blizzard could simply write a faction of San’layn that are victims of similar prejudice, and therefore seek out the Horde for help. As Rokhan himself states, the San’layn have no home left.
If there is one thing to be taken away from this, it is that existing vampire canon dispersed amongst separate sources does not need to dictate the arc that Blizzard must take in handling their vampire lore. Major plot and story developments happen routinely, and similarly we are made aware of new dynamics, civilizations, groups, and ideologies that were hidden before. It is a natural part of a developing storyline.
I see no reason why the San’layn, as a species, must be excluded from this definition and instead painted with a broad, generic paintbrush as “obviously evil.” That’s boring. Blizzard can do better, and they may very well might.
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Good and evil are but varying subjective perspectives.
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See this is where the 100% black and white, good and evil cut and dried scenarios annoy me.
Yes, San’layn should definitely have the capacity for evil, as in a similar light, Void Elves haven’t shown this yet, as they seem fairly happy go lucky for a race steeped in the Void which stems from the Void=good, Light=evil schtick that has been prevalent in recent content, which in itself is problematic.
So to have the San’layn be completely evil wouldn’t be right, just as having them be BA with hearts of gold wouldn’t be either. I personally want the Void Elves and San’layn to demonstrate that they can both be decent allies and assets as well as commit actions that could make you cringe.
You know, being multidimensional.
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That’s how blood elves and forsaken were originally… Everything has become so one dimensional over time.
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I wouldn’t say they’re all completely evil but i would say due to there ‘thirst’ problems they’re predisposition-ed to being darker and more evil for a need to survive and will use powers that are more fitting to support this (usually Blood, Death and Shadow/Void Magic) whereas Void Elves are just stuck with the whispers of madness that doesn’t make them predisposition-ed to evil but will make them that way if they falter.
Like take Orcs they aren’t evil by no right but they’re more wild and violent which can make them more likely to be evil then good but you will find good ones (Thrall, Saurfang, Dranosh).
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Wow really cool and detailed look at the san’layn. That female san’layn at the top of the page looks really amazing. I definitely like this idea for a possible future allied race option.
+1 from me
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No
Yes.
![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
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No ![:white_check_mark:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/white_check_mark.png?v=6" ":white_check_mark:")
Ignoring the obvious troll, you all have good points. I’m definitely not saying San’layn by any means should be angels. Not ever. Like Death Knights, they’re required to kill and need to feed upon blood.
“Evil” is subjective though. They could kill both pragmatically and to protect people. Will they have violent tendencies? Probably. Every undead does. But Blizzard breaks the cliche of undead being mindlessly evil in general which is one of the things I really enjoy about their lore.
Having a free will brings to the table things like choice. Void elves and DH have this too–they can give into the demon or void whispers, or stay strong and use the tool in a positive fashion to save their people.
It’s all about how you use the tools given to you or that you’re forced to use when dealing with free will.
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Actually this sort of makes sense since they ‘borrowed’ the blood golem technology from Throne of Thunder, we see them performing bloodbinding magic on these golems back in WoD too against the demon invasion in Talador.
This is however a good sign, it would make the san’layn more welcome among them if they are already openly using blood magic.
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