I hope so.
Casual players make M+ runs go terribly.
Stay in heroics and world quests please <3
So what if it is a player issue? For the better part of a decade, players that have the skillset to succeed in key levels 2 - 11 had a game mode suited for them. Now they do not.
Yes, there will be people who benefit from this change, mainly those who only used that former key range as a stepping stone to higher keys or who can turn the higher item level heroic/world quest/LFR gear into reaching higher into M+. But for the players whose sweet spot by the end of the season existed in that range, that gameplay option is gone. Yes they have alternate methods that are easier to get the gear, but the players who enjoyed that level of content for reasons other than just what gear came out of it have lost that experience entirely.
The part that keeps getting lost in these kinds of responses is that not everyone were equipped or wanted to skip that level of content. There were players for which those levels were a primary part of their endgame, and that endgame is just gone. Even for the players that will be able to take the higher relative item level from heroics and push into M0 or M+, they can’t do that within an M+ environment anymore.
What an arrogant thing to post. If you were that much better than casuals, then surely you were in levels that casuals couldn’t reach within the first few weeks of a season at which point the changes to the low end wouldn’t affect you in any way.
Yes, best cater to the good players rather than the majority who - frankly - are not good.
WoW was appealing to the masses cause it was easy, and it has been on a down-dip ever since it started to listen to the “git gud” crowd.
You don’t have to do difficult content if you don’t have any desire to do difficult content. Heroic dungeons and LFR are right there waiting for you. Mythic and beyond is end game content for those who want it and who want to improve their skills in the game.
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It’s the truth lol.
Not necessarily. I have my KSM/KSH from previous expansions (BfA & SL). This expansion has been quite boring and I’ve quit multiple times. But don’t you worry It’ll be up there.
Then why do you care what happens at levels below where you belong?
And where are those players expected to improve their skills in M+? The entry point of mythic mechanics is what used to be M+10. For anyone who used to sit in levels below there, they have nowhere to get the same experience they’ll face at mythic level. And then for those that do reach that M+10 level, that mode doesn’t reward them with gear after the first time they complete it in the week, discouraging them from running it more than once per week.
One of the main goals was to change that progression. They wrote a whole article about it. One of the main things was that heroic and M0 were essentially useless aside from week 1 or 2 of a new expansion. The wat the M+ key system worked, there were too many key levels. And the low keys, provided very little challenge for very little reward. You didnt start feeling the keys until LV10 or so.
What they did was make each key level more difficult and made M0 and M2-4 Rewarding. The difficulty ramps up a lot quicker, but all things considered, its a more rewarding ladder to climb.
From personal experience a +2-4 at 470i Gear level hurts. At 480i they are a breeze.
I will agree that they may have tuned the knobs a little to high on this. But, with most things difficulty related, it is better to start high then tune back a bit. That feels better than, increasing the difficulty.
And it is only week two. The players who worked for weeks in those +2-9 keys, just to get up to a +10, have weeks to gear up, and upgrade to start moving into +5s now. Just wait until the players struggling with +2 keys, start to get their bouillon items, and 4 piece tier. Upgrade them items into the 490s. They will start climbing. Give it more than 1 vault reset.
I myself feel ok about the changes. In previous seasons, It was jumping right into +10 keys, because the gear from anything less, was worse than I currently had.
I made a group for Uldaman M0 and called it “chill, learning group”. I was tanking on my druid and set the ilvl req to 470. The run wasn’t perfect but was smooth enough. Everyone was 472-479.
I was almost on the hate train until I solved my own problem. I still think the heroic to M0 gap is too big but it can be overcome.
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it sounds like they shouldn’t. just like players who find normal raids suitably challenging weren’t and aren’t running mythic raids.
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The concern is that there are players for which those levels were challenging, comprising a significant portion of their endgame. For those players, that endgame experience is gone.
Yes and no.
What you are talking about is their ceiling. With the old system, their ceiling was +4-+9 Keys. With this system, it is M0-2. It is also just a sharper jump.
Remember though. We havent had 2 resets yet. They need to gear from M0, LFR still. If their ceiling last season was +9 and Normal raid, they are light on the gear from people running +10-15. Once they plateau a bit on LFR, Normal, M0, they will feel a lot better to play in +4-6 keys.
K, but M0 is the equivalent of a 10, meaning “their ceiling” is below M0 but well above heroic. That “+4-+9” range is simply gone. It’s not in 0, 0 is just 10. It’s not in heroic because heroic is even easier than last season’s 0.
There is no +4-+9 range as there once was anymore nor is there a new equivalent of it.
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This is the solution to all the “gatekeeper” complaints, I respect you for not thinking you are entitled to be invited by players to a group.
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I don’t feel that a player who previously was doing low single digit keys can get enough practice in a reasonable period of time to increase their skills or ilvl to the point where it will be “easier”.
I expect they will make heroic much, much harder, thus moving the brick wall down from heroic → mythic+0 to normal → heroic.
Blizzard is fixated on the idea that the “learning” process that the most experienced players use is something that inexperienced players can just reorient their brains to and suddenly have decades of experience at their class and with every previous instance during past expansions to draw from. I’m sure they’ll double down when this doesn’t turn out to be a smashing success in turning every casual and solo player into hard focused keypusher.
They’re thinking this is “tough love”. It’s not how average learners learn. But they’re convinced that with enough tough love, they can make everybody far above average.
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So then what does that make you? I’m a casual, I pug lead heroic raids and +20s, I’ve also casually gotten KSM 4 seasons in a row now, and KSH 2 seasons in a row, I have sark AOTC and Fyrakk AOTC and just finished this seasons heroic raid mastery achiev as well. So if casuals are such awful players, and I’m a casual who does all that, what does that make you?
I think you should probably stop commenting.
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It’s intentional, and good for the game.
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I did get invited to an Azure Vaults on my paladin and after the first wipe on the first boss the dps numbers were as follows:
Me - 148k
Priest - 46k
Tank - 32k
Unholy DK - 19K
Healer - 3k
Needless to say that was not a successful run…
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How can someone even do 19k unless it’s just auto attacking?
There are some, but that’s nothing new, there has been a steady decline in tanks and healers forever and this season is not the only reason.
So, OP is talking about difficulty from heroic to M0, which according to Blizzard feedback is what enough people asked for, so they done it. Many of us before this change told them it would be a bad idea, yet here we are, in a situation that we told them we would be in.
The main issue is that people suck at this game, don’t try to deny it or make excuses, people just suck at this game. People need to have low low keys, i.e. last seasons M2-5 to do because they are so bad, they need to be carried in higher keys, they need to justify their own downfalls, make excuses, blame others or whatever to help them seleep at night and this seasons M2 and M2+ are showing that.
The whole “We want content to mean something” was not a ‘We want harder content’ but a cry for ‘Easier to obtain gear’. People wanted queueable M0, they even asked for queueable M+, they wanted to be able to join a dungeon without all the effort and leave without question, i.e. find a group that is good enough to carry them or don’t participate, they wanted to be able to log in, do some S3 heroic level dungeons and be given M+ levels of gear, and they didn’t want to put in the effort.
But now we are seeing players for what they truly are, not being able to complete an old M10 with the usual levels of gear progression, because they couldn’t do it in the first place and this change is not what they want.
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