yeah, it’s kind of crazy to me how people min max for like, world quests and mythic 10s?
just the fact that so many people seriously consider choosing a race they dont like for the racials is absolutely bizzare to me
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When min/maxers are trying to have fun systems gutted, homogenized, or just completely removed because “BiS”, then yes it ruins the game for people who don’t care about that extra .05% dps.
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It has to do with magnitude. Yes you optimize your character in an RPG, because if you don’t you won’t get anywhere. However, in RPGs there’s also a lot of wiggle room remaining in how you build your character — there are mathematically “best” ways to do things, but few people do that because it’s enough to meet the threshold for beating the boss or whatever. Once your character is “good enough”, remaining customization (including major gameplay impacting bits) comes down to preference.
In WoW however, if you’re not going all the way with optimization, you’re flat out wrong. There’s very little wiggle room, and it’s more of a binary choice; either minmax or get sidelined.
It would be great if WoW was more of the former paragraph and less of the latter paragraph.
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is there something stopping you from being 470 and only running normal raid since you’d be good enough? The thing about this game is you can decide what you want to do. You’re not required to work your way to cutting edge.
If you dont care then its w/e what system you get, cause you dont care and you dont need it either, assuming you are talking about wf/tf, so yeah, the coin has 2 sides.
People care about other people’s play styles way too much.
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That would be perfectly true if the minmax-overgear mentality was restricted to the upper echelons of content, but it’s not. It’s not hard to find people gatekeeping +2’s and normal raids (yes yes I know, run your own group). Point is, the extreme optimization mindset is pernicious and has found its way into parts of the game it has no business being in.
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Nope, talking about covenant abilities. And it’s not w/e because reading up on them they look fun and each covenant has unique abilities. It’s actually a system that many of us are looking forward to.
But because they’re uniquely flavored min/maxers can’t have that so they want them homogenized or removed.
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I have no difficulty joining a pug normal raid at 440 ilvl, and people gating +2s are more than likely doing it for a specific reason, it’s not the default, as there are plenty of groups that would take you instead.
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Min/maxing is very rewarding. Digging through your bags and putting on your best gear combination is very much an RPG element.
The two aren’t at odds. The recent friction has been caused by covenants in SL. Each provides different powers, and the powers seem to favor a certain style of play. One may make you do better ST damage. Another may buff your AoE, and another will favor PvP.
Min/maxers want them all, or at least readily interchangeable so they can use appropriate abilities in appropriate venues. People who enjoy the RPG story thinks it’s silly to swear fealty to a covenant, earn their trust, and work for them to gain their abilities, only to turn around 10 mins later and say “lol jk. I’m with them now”.
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many classes who are perfectly viable in a lot of forms of content unable to get into said content because brain dead minmaxer community believes only viable classes are in the mdi and world first
It is like you don’t even play this game xD
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Heh… I like games that don’t take away your ability to use certain spells on bosses. Like the final fight in Divinity Original Sin’s Act 1, where I was able to nuke down the lava add with water spells, which created a pool of magma on its body which causes millions of fire damage to anything that steps in it, and then teleport the poisonous ghoul add into the magma tile, instantly killing it.
I was doing okay with the big bad until I thought… hey this worked great for that one, what happens when I drop the big boss who is nearly dead in… oh… oh fire heals him. Oh that was a mistake.
This goes both ways, though - I see people trashing other people’s talent choices in leveling dungeons for crying out loud.
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That is so wrong it’s laughable. The abilities are unique. That’s why people are complaining. The Venthir teleport? If everyone had that ability people wouldn’t be crying that they HAVE to pick Venthir otherwise they’re “trolling” their group.
I’ve been keeping up with this. So you can chill with the personal attacks if you don’t have a real point to make.
There is a difference between using a higher damage weapon and min-maxing… min-maxing takes into account your full spread of stats… a true min-maxer will often refuse to equip an item that is an upgrade because it doesn’t have the right secondary stats or because it will drop a “vital” secondary stat below a certain threshold until they get another piece of gear with a specific stat combo…
At one point in time in the game the actual weapon type was even a factor for min-maxers because most classes benefited more from fast weapons, which meant everyone in melee wanted Axes because they had the highest attack speed besides daggers. Blizzard normalized one-handed weapon attack speeds and the need for axes died off.
Anyways… as for the original question.
An RPG includes elements of choice that have an impact on the game moving forwards. Normally in the form of player attributes with distributable points as you level… sometimes you can change your choices at specific locations and/or for a cost… but not always…
Min-maxing has always gone hand-in-hand with RPGs but it has never been an integral part of them. It has always been an action taken by a particular sub-sect of the RPG community.
Also as a bit of a side note… many of the decisions that have been made for WoW since MoP have been leaning heavily towards Adventure game genre and out of RPG genre…
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Yes it always exist, everyone does it in some mesure. It just depends how much do your care about your performance and being sucessfull in the game.
What if then a boss require 10k dps and you refuse to play the good spec/good talents/farm the consumables/etc? It really depends on the level of play you play. For you it doesn’t have an impact like we can clearly see. For guilds that kill bosses pre-nerfs or attempts them pre-nerfs optimizing more is more required.
Furthermore at some level, even if you’re a decent player. There will be another player with the same skill level if not better that will be ready to do those. Why should your guild/or even a group for m+ put you in if you don’t put as much efforts as someone else will do? When it could make fights a lot harder, if not impossible to kill pre-nerf.
Ive never seen someone flame people in a plus 2 for having non optimized gear, talents, essences, spec, or race. Most people at that level have no idea how their own class works let alone everyone elses.
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People just don’t understand the difference between Diablo and GURPS
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I’ve seen people trash someone’s build in Dire Maul.
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And thats fine, all they want is having them swappable so you arent gimped on certain content for choosing the obvious choice, literally no one that i know (outside of this forum aka proper players) want them removed, but if you believe that blizz can balance covenants without having to homogenize them, then santa is waiting for you outside your house.