Roll the Bones

[Vulkova-illidan]

Roll the Bones is dumb because you just use a weak aura to tell you if you got a good combo or not and anyone not using that weak aura is at a disadvantage.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

WoD Sub and Assassination along with Combat was peak Rogue along with Cata/MoP.

[Myzrym-area-52]

@Kurøno-quelthalas

Would you be sad if this skill was removed completely?

This would be the best thing they’ve ever done to rogues since bringing back the swirly ball.

[Fuselink-doomhammer]

I mostly think I hate it… but then that 6 roll hits when you go up against a crocolisk and it’s like heroine in your veins…

[Targ-fenris (Targ)]

In regards to everything you said… nah.

Combat was awesome.

Outlaw is not.

[Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow]

@Kurøno-quelthalas

I used to love Combat, but after it was remade into Outlaw in Legion i lost pretty much all motivation to play it.

I totally agree. This is exactly how I felt at the time.

@Kurøno-quelthalas

My main issue being the HEAVY leaning towards the Pirate theme

Absolutely. My seductress spies were turned into (what was described to us as) drunken men who engaged in knife fights for the fun of it. There was zero consideration given to anyone who might have played rogue for some other reason than recreating the kiddie cartoon version of what pirates are and do.

There is nothing glamourous about piracy. These are people that commandeer ships and kill everyone on board for a living. They steal everything and then scuttle the ship. I am unable to identify with characters that do unspeakable acts that would get me a forum ban just from putting them into words.

But most of all I miss Cloak and Dagger.

[Wulm-aerie-peak (Wulm)]

@Kurøno-quelthalas

Would you be sad if this skill was removed completely?

Yes, because if what we got in return was Bandit’s Guile and NOTHING ELSE changed (ie, BF still on the GCD, STILL a CD and not a toggle and STILL TARGET CAPPED, and SND left as is, and the flow was just waiting for BTE windows), that spec would feel like a relic of a bygone era. it would not fit with current retail well at all.

edit: had to refresh my memory, the mechanic I’m referring to making a comeback is the Insight mechanic. It was great at the time, I loved Combat, but a lot of other things would need to change in the spec, not just removing rtb, to make it work like it did before Legion and for it to be up to par with the rest of the game. And let’s face it, they’re never giving us uncapped blade flurry again.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Psychi-malganis

@Shadybolt-thrall

Combat never existed.
Or rather what did exist was this sentence:

What are you even talking about?

@Shadybolt-thrall

“I’m a Combat Rogue going into combat using Combat combat abilities to do combat. My Combat combat stuff helps me in combat and when I want to get out of combat. But the fantasy of a Combat rogue is to go into combat using Combat abilities like the Combat ability of doing combat because Combat abilities should all be about combat but if you don’t do combat as Combat you aren’t fulfilling your combat, Combat, or Combat-combat fantasy.”

That.
I’m talking about that.

A rotation can be as intricate or as enjoyable as possible … but I’m talking about the fact (yes, fact) that Combat rogue didn’t have an identity. The rotation existed, but nothing else about it.

I can tell you the most enjoyable things about every single specialization of every class I have played and it won’t be “it had a fun rotation at one point during expansion years and years ago”.

That’s not an identity, that’s literally the opposite of it.

@Targ-fenris

In regards to everything you said… nah.

Combat was awesome.

Outlaw is not.

Mention one single character identifying feature of Combat rogue (that isn’t shared by Outlaw).
Go!

[Duffle-frostmourne]

@Dugtrio-area-52

The pirate theme is far too niche

Idk why everyone still calls them pirates…

Pistols and dice aren’t exclusively sea based, peg legged, eyepatchy paraphernalia.

They’re just bandits

[Psychi-malganis]

@Bonezz-area-52

Not every spec in the game needs to devolve into mindless 1 button afk simulator aka how old combat was.

If you just mindlessly spammed sinister strike and cycled through the buffs without timing or energy management you would do crap damage…

There was a lot of healthy nuance with Bandits guile that made such a simple rotation so engaging to min max

[Alyreu-silver-hand (Alyreu)]

RtB has been universally hated since its inception, but they’ll never remove it because of their egos.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Alyreu-silver-hand

RtB has been universally hated since its inception […]

Nope.

[Psychi-malganis]

I used to main rogue and stopped because of whatever they did to it.

Rogue is no longer rogue anymore it’s just a mishmash of old rogue ideas and new things that doesn’t quite fit together properly

[Alyreu-silver-hand (Alyreu)]

Sorry dude I didn’t realize you were the protagonist of reality.

[Diablognomis-staghelm]

For me it was sitting there having your rotation dictated by procs. which went over the top in season 3/4 or when ever that revamp was.

Fun in the open world but annoying in keys because you can’t sit there focused on your combo points.

IIUC now it’s focusing on re-stealth rotations, not a fan of that either.

RTB was never great, but I think it was worse in previous expansions.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

I ain’t the dude talking about “universally hated” stuff that ain’t universally hated. The only folks who still whine and complain about “combat” rogues are folks whose pink eyed glasses have become an integral part of their personality.

Outlaw ain’t “universally hated” by any stretch of the imagination, nor have Roll the Bones been that either.

[Kazeer-moon-guard]

I’m not sure where the pirate-like view comes from. I never felt it. Also, the spec name can just mean you’re wanted by the authorities. Anyway, about the topic. I, too, think Bones should either be redesigned or replaced with something that doesn’t rely on RNG. I dislike using an ability without knowing what it’s going to do. Rerolling costs DPS.

[Psychi-malganis]

@Shadybolt-thrall

Outlaw ain’t “universally hated” by any stretch of the imagination, nor have Roll the Bones been that either

By the actual rogue community… yes outlaw definitely is universally hated and so is roll
The bones

It doesn’t take much to go through the forums and see countless threads since its inception about how bad both of them are compared to old combat

[Shadybolt-thrall]

And again, no.

Hell, my main is a rogue and yes - he do be an Outlaw rogue.

@Psychi-malganis

It doesn’t take much to go through the forums and see countless threads since its inception about how bad both of them are compared to old combat

You mean these forums where people complain endlessly rather than play the game at all…? Sorry but again, no. It ain’t universally hated by anyone but folks who wear pink glasses and have staunch believes that even Snore and Sleep should be kept in-game despite it breaking EVERY conventional game design philosophy and knowledge from the past 10+ years.

So no. Snore and Sleep defenders ain’t representative of an universal opinion, since there literally isn’t one.

---

But sure, I pose the same challenge to you as to Targ:

@Shadybolt-thrall

Mention one single character identifying feature of Combat rogue (that isn’t shared by Outlaw).
Go!

[Psychi-malganis]

You are quite literally an exception who likes outlaw and roll the bones