The current meta is littered with roots and slows. Vanish is too essential of an offensive and defensive CD to dedicate it to a root break in most cases. Most other melee have some ability that lets them clear roots on a relatively short CD. Monks, Hunters, Druids, Paladins, Death Knights, Warriors, and even DHs if the roots are a magical effect (usually the case) can all clear roots on a short CD. Having the freedom sprint PvP talent back would bring rogues more in line with other melee that despite having short CD outs, still complain about the constant roots in the current meta. Without a mobility cooldown like this PvP is completely miserable, especially for assa which generates pressure by spreading DoTs and therefore is uniquely punished for sitting roots 90% of the game.
Agreed. There really is no excuse for Sprint doing nothing but increasing movement speed.
Sprint in its current state is badly designed.
Agreed! We could definitely use it lol
I still miss when sprint could be used for water walking with the glyph. Was great in BGs and ganking RPers in Stormwind since you could run on the canals and reset guard pathing.
Oh MAN running through the canals with players in pursuit was always so fun lol
This was my favorite glyph in the entire game. It was what I would call a perfect glyph. It didn’t make you run faster or do more damage or anything as boring as smaller/bigger numbers but it gave you utility in a way that was situationally powerful. What’s often called “incomparables” in game design.
Not gonna lie, I miss it to this day.
Truly peak design from Blizz.
Meanwhile DK has Death’s Advance.
Does 2 shadowsteps and shadowstrikes shadowstep behavior help move you while snared/rooted/slowed? I thought it did. Cloak of Shadows also seems to function as an immunity to just about every CC?
Its been awhile since I played rogue but I rarely can get a CC to funtion Vs rogue.
Shadowstep and Strike cannot be used while rooted. For Shadowstep this has been the case since WotLK.
Hunters have bloated CC kits so it’s seems weird you would have any issue. I suspect you are encountering a Rogue burning their most precious CD: Vanish in order to break your roots and slows. Which is a pretty favorable trade off you should be happy to make.
Cloak of Shadows does remove most negative effects if you glyph it to do so. Otherwise it only deals with effects considered magical. But again this is an expensive CD. Using it basically means the Rogue will not be able to get off a successful vanish because the amount of easily applied DoTs in the game is absurd.
It’s why a bunch of Rogue mains on here are wondering why our Sprint doesn’t break roots or snares.
CloS has an increased CD compared to the past and back then.
My desire to drop MM for Sub is I’m found while shadowmelded, damaged while stunned, if I trinket I am stunned 1 second after, whether I trinket or not I die while being stunned the remaining duration of combat.
Maybe I need to put wall on a sequential macro with medallion to hope to get both off before the second stun. The rogues I face in Solo BG are 2100cr-2450cr and due to their skill level, leave 0 seconds for me to not be stunned during combat except maybe a GCD after medallion. Getting CC off while I’m stunned is not possible.
In a 1v1 I am stunned so only my pet may auto attack so no need for the rogue to use Evasion or Cloak of Shadows unless they are capping a base, no need to free themselve from a snare or slow I cant cast, no need to shadowstep as I havent moved since I am stunned. I would have to not base sit and hold my healers hand to try to live, or hope the rogue attacks anyone that isnt me to use a snare or stun of my own.
If they are doing triple cheap shot stun lock it means that they can not follow up with a Kidney Shot and Blind has a shorter duration in PVP combat now.
Also Gouge is a longer CD along with Kidney Shot. So you have to find a way around the Cheap Shot spam.
Rogues only have 2 stuns. One of which requires they be stealth currently or recently. Only Sub can use it on demand via Shadow Dance. The other is a finisher: Kidney Shot
These abilities have DR on each other. Going straight from Cheapshot into Kidney Shot is extremely inefficient. To the point where it would have been better to simply Kidney Shot you with full CPs.
Cheapshot = 4 secs.
Max CP Kidney Shot = 8 secs.
Cheapshot followed immediately by max CP Kidney Shot = 8 secs max because diminishing returns.
You are not stunned the whole time. You are being outplayed by a class that you are basically built to counter. Happens. Sometimes Boomkins kill me. Crazy I know.
My suggestion is don’t panic push your medallion. Kidney Shot is the CC you want to cleanse. Not Cheapshot.
You have 15 Secs after you have been CC’d that another CC of that type will suffer DR at 50%. So Rogues with mods might know exactly when they can lay another full stun into you. You probably want to know this too. Kidney Shot’s CD is 20 secs currently. Will be 30secs soon. So Rogue’s chain stunning you is just not mechanically possible between CDs and DR.
Sub Rogues have windows where they are dangerous. Shadow Dance, Symbols of Death, Shadow Blades are the stuff you got to worry about. Disrupt these windows. Symbols and Dance can be used fairly routinely but Shadow Blades is a long CD. If that ability pops, you need to pop Aspect of the Turtle because this is them saying they are going to kill you.
Shadow Blades does offer a flat 20% dmg buff in the form of shadow dmg to all attacks but more importantly it dramatically increases the Rogue’s ability to generate CPs which is the real problem because the opportunity cost of using utility finishers and damages finishers is basically erased with it up. The Rogue can drop a max CP 8 sec Kidney shot into you then back to back spam Eviscerate. This is the danger zone.
Evasion is useless against any ranged attacks. If a Rogue pops Evasion it’s probably for your pets. But pro-tip: Players can’t dodge attacks from behind so Evasion is far from foolproof defensive even against melee. Evasion is a perfect time to get behind them an land a stun wasting the CD. This is what Rogues do to each other when facing off. Try to get the cheeky from behind stun.
Rogues are extremely dependent on getting the jump on you. Stealth is the primary way we defend ourselves and we are fragile outside of it. So focus on disrupting their opening and the high damage windows and Rogues become laughably weak.
A good Rogue will break off an attack that flubs unless they have back up or just crazy better gear then you. Arena not withstanding because you have to fight there.
1st Cheapshot = 4 secs
2nd = 2 secs
3rd = 1 secs
So I just don’t buy this is causing him problems. A single max CP Kidney Shot if better.
Can you give me an example of being MM who already used medallion and gets free from a cheap shot chain?
+1
i would like it to suppress all roots and movement slowing effects for its entire duration, however.
You don’t need too. Cheapshot is 4 secs before DR, followed by 2 secs, followed by 1 sec. Followed by immune.
GCD is 1.5 for most players. You need an absurd amount of haste to get it lower.
So the 2nd and 3rd Cheapshot aren’t even worth the GCD. What is the Rogue even doing to you in this scenario? Because they literally don’t have time to do damage. If you think you’re getting chain CS, medallion the first one. The other two are mostly a waste.
Chain casting Cheapshot is most useful when the Rogue is a part of a team and is acting as a means of locking down an individual or for casting it onto multiple people. In either case the Rogue is serving a CC bot and not as a damage dealer. Their resources are firmly dedicated to CC in these scenarios.
In a 1v1 fight this isn’t much of a threat and in a team fight you need to ask the question what are your allies doing?
If it suppressed roots and snares it’s duration would need to be shorten. Probably to somewhere between 4 to 6 secs max. 12 sec of immunity would be OP.
Kidney can be dodged or parried while Cheap Shot can not be parried or dodged. In PVP Kidney Shot is now five seconds if I recall correctly and the CD is 30 seconds. Too risky for Sub Rogues.
Cheap shot can not be dodged which is why triple cheap shot has been a common stun lock for Sub Rogues since Cataclysm.
This is because in WotLK Cheap shot and Kidney Shot would not DR with each other. But that started with Cata and you still had people doing Cheap Shot into a DR Kidney well into MoP.
I think that is what is happening to them based on what they are describing.
Probably but the game mechanics have already rendered that tactic largely ineffective outside of very niche situations. Cheapshot spam is a tactic employed by Rogues at a cost to their damage. It’s an opportunity cost as it should be. I can use 3 Cheapshot in a row on the same target but I’m not gonna be doing much else so I better have good teammates who are taking advantage of my trade-off.
And Kidney now being a max 5 sec stun makes it even more difficult to do what he’s complaining about. You are still better off getting a Kidney Shot off first then going into a Cheapshot. Less GCDs longer stun duration per a GCD same amount of stun time after all is said and done.
5 + 4 * .5 = 7 vs 4 + 4(.5) + 4(.25) = 7
~ 3 secs of GCD vs ~ 4.5 secs of GCD.
Plus Control is King can allow you to regen more then double the energy you spend on casting KS.
It’s so weird to come in here and talk about Rogue’s stuns being egregious when stuns are ubiquitous. Many classes have just as many and/or as long stuns as we do.
Stunlocking doesn’t exist anymore. But this is an excellent demonstration of a phenomenon I’ve talked about before. How people think Rogues are powerful, perhaps too powerful, based on outdated understandings of how we work going back to like Classic. This uniquely negative / warped perception of Rogues.