First, I would like to say that I’m thankful that we haven’t been ignored and there were some changes for rogue. However, I also want to say that knob adjustments only help so much when our specs are fundamentally jank. The way rogue current plays it feels less like we’re playing the way the devs want and rather are finding ways to keep rogue relevant despite what the devs intended.
Some minor fixes that I think would go a long way
Assassination - a passive called something like “Completed Contract” that after killing 5 honor/experience giving targets it resets the cooldown of vanish. This would eliminate a huge sore spot for sin rogues in M+ as chain pulling is awful.
Outlaw - Take away between the eyes and bake the debuff it provides into dispatch. Have Between The Eyes instead be a proc that would activate when free BtE’s would normally appear and take over Dispatch. This would eliminate a lot of having to stare a WA bars and help the class feel a lot more fluid.
(Sorry, I have nothing for sub as any tweaks here would have drastic changes to pvp and I don’t know the spec well enough to know what helps/hurts.)
Just put Shadow Dance back in the class tree . We already had a solution. Everything Blizz has done to replace it is just extra work for a worse player experience.
I like shadow dance, but having a 1 min cooldown still doesn’t fix the major problem Sin rogues face in m+. For us to maximize our damage, we would want to go into each pack from stealth to spread our dots. That’s why I suggest this fix.
It would also be within assassination themes/fantasy as assassins generally want to take out a target/targets then ‘vanish’. Also, it wouldn’t be busted in pve or pvp so once applied it wouldn’t need adjustments.
… and with Shadow Dance made available every minute you wouldnt need to stealth as you could refresh bleeds after pressing it. Not only does it happen twice as often as Vanish, it also frees up Vanish to be used for actual Rogue things. As i said, we already had a solution. No need to reinvent the wheel.
How is that awful again? Like I’m open to criticism but not offering feedback isn’t helpful and makes your opinion disregarded instantly. And while I don’t main outlaw, that was the biggest issue while I was learning it and had my eyes glued to my WA bar.
He was not incorrect in mentioning that you dont play outlaw. Why do you think you can disregard the fact that your proposed outlaw changes are terrible under the guise that its someones opinion?
Yes we are. Even in 12’s and 13’s it’s not 1 min per pack.
Because I do play outlaw just not as my main spec (I specifically have a rogue alt that’s outlaw) and without bringing what’s wrong with it, it’s something to disregard. They effectively stood up and said, “Nuh uh!” and sat back down.
It was back when 670 ilvl was the average of those running 12s and 13s. If you are closer to the 684 max, youre overgeared for those levels. Yes, when youre actually challenging yourself in M+ those pulls will begin to last over a minute.
Your idea was essentially suggesting 2 buttons be merged so players dont have to make the concious decision on which one to press. Thats completely antithetical to the Rogue playstyle. Yes you should be thinking about which finisher should be pressed. Outlaw only has the 2 of em when Killing Spree isnt talented.
I know I’ve already made my own posts in the subject, but:
Assassination needs a way to do its AoE rotation proper without needing to re-stealth. I feel it’s better in Rogue’s fantasy to get class talents to provide temporary DPS boosts during and briefly post stealth (we used to have this). In other words, stealth should be a bonus, not a requirement for rotation. That’s Subtlety’s territory.
I feel Killing Spree is basically becoming what Between the Eyes used to be. Outlaw in general needs a bit of a spec talent tree overhaul. And it also needs a brand new Mastery - Main Gauche has always been a failure of a Mastery. (I still think it should be something that buffs the odds and/or effect of all RNG mechanics i.e. ‘Scoundrel’s Luck’ but I can also see it being something gun-and-sword themed too). Outlaw just needs some fresh new ideas to help flesh out the tree and builds.
I also personally feel the whole Take em By Surprise (at least in the spec tree) and Crackshot stuff needs to go - using Vanish as a major rotational DPS cooldown makes the least sense for Outlaw out of all specs. It’s also borderline non-functional for solo PvE play. I know this is a divisive issue as some people love Vanish+Crackshot and some people hate it.
Deathstalker and Fatebound also could use some changes. Deathstalker’s Mark is a miserable mechanic, and Fatebound is so boring and bad that it’s NEVER taken for Assassination Rogues, and is increasingly struggling to stay relevant even for its intended paired spec (Outlaw).
I’ve already said plenty about my thoughts on Subtlety - the long and short of it is that too much of its DPS is tied in its complex burst phase, it needs more value in Haste i.e. Symbols and/or Dance cooldown could be reduced by Haste, and I personally feel it could lean more into its Shadow damage fantasy to make the spec more thematically and visually interesting
Slice n Dice was a button that gave you a buff the specs felt unplayable without while also not feeling important enough to belong in the opener and was generally seen as an extra step. It was made passive to prevent the additional once a fight button press. Its not at all the same as calling for 2 rotational button to be merged so you dont need to make rotational decisions.
Dont be obnoxious.
Just bring back Shadow Dance instead of doubling down on the creation of buggy auras that need to be combined like Voltron to give Vanish a similar effect. It currently takes 3 talents to still do less than what Shadow Dance efficiently allowed.
words you should follow. If you disliked slice n dice being effectively passive then fully passive, there’s no reason to be against button bloat as a whole other than to be contrarian.
It’s literally the exact same as slice n dice used to be part of the rotation and was just needless bloat that you’re pushing to keep a buff up. Between the Eyes is that buff one is applying outside of their procs and gives nothing other than that buff outside of procs. It’s unnecessary bloat.
That’s fine, you’re an assassination main that has no business talking about outlaw. I don’t care about someone that doesn’t play outlaw. So keep it out of your mouth. K thanks bye.
. We already had a solution. Everything Blizz has done to replace it is just extra work for a worse player experience.
