imo this is a bad argument. Every other tank, including the other ‘new’ tanks (shaman/warlock), are having a much better and easier time filling the role. They didn’t have to wait to be enabled - why should we?
I’ve mentioned several times through this thread, but I will again here: Blizzard explicitly said they were adding these tanks to address the tank shortage at both cap and throughout leveling. If rogues have to wait for an unforeseen and unknown amount of time to MAYBE become viable, how does that accomplish their goal? What in the rogue tanks kit has you so afraid of enabling us at level 25? We’re currently getting destroyed in the categories we were theorized to be kings of.
We’re not asking for perfect function. You, and others, act like we’re asking to be some unkillable braindead godmode aoe tank. We just want tank rogue to function without feeling as awkward as it does right now. It’s the bare minimum.
Right now rogue tanking feels like that meme where the guy is riding a bike and shoves a stick in his wheel spokes, causing himself to fall.
edit: further adding to warlocks/shaman - their kits will also expand as the phases progress. Warlock tank with siphon life? Soul link? Spellstone for magic tanking? Master Demonologist? Deathcoil? Double vw sac? A tank with an offensive dispel + interrupt, grounding totem to tank spells. I could go on.
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Read your response, and you want to know why we should have to wait a little before we become gods? Its because we are very likely to become gods.
Its the same for warriors, they start off weak but the talents and base abilities scale the class far better than other classes. So sure right now it is easier to tank on the other “New tanks” but they are very unlikely to be practical in raid in the way that we are.
Does this actually solve the problems blizzard claims they wanted to address? Nope, it will be just more of the same of (expansion name here) because there is and always will be BiS be that class, comp or gear and its just a fact that this is how it always plays out, so we can either accept and embrace the role we have likely been given on a silver platter and embrace that while the other “tanks” get told to put on the dress or we can screw ourselves and homogenize now.
Rogue tanking feels terrible. Trying to spam blade dance before something dies and all of the combo points are wasted was enough for me to know this had no thought put into it. Switching targets to build agro, combo points gone. They did it all for the memes.
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Fairly sure some of these are bad-faith arguments from other tanks to be honest, Tab targeting is no real issue, the time it takes to get the rune is no real issue, I think people are complaining about the idea of rogue tanks more than rogue tanks themselves.
tank as a rogue, main gauche and blade dance 1 point gives you near guaranteed riposte, sure you drop a few combo points here and there but most of the time I already have blade dance active and would just drop it on slice and dice
by the time MG and blade dance drops you have more points for a better Blade dance, sinister strike and riposte on tab targets, not seeing the sky is falling issue people are aiming for, no magic damage mitigation but you stack stamina.
I think people are using MG on cooldown like its a combo point builder instead of letting BD drop for a few ticks and using MG to cover the gap. it is a very forgiving build that allows you to take time for energy regen even,
Notice the word spam appears very often, that’s not rogue tanking, warriors tank like electric guitars, rogues tank like violinists, no wasted moments, no shredding, deliberate and intentional actions instead of keeping everything on cooldown.
I’m gonna have to agree that rogue maybe takes a little more skill to play successfully (Read restraint, discipline & control) and the warrior tank style doesn’t overlay with it so if you think you’re a good warrior tank and try to play the same you won’t get very far and that’s the source of frustration.
heck we haven’t even mentioned gouging adds or using evasion. tease etc.
I’ve seen this repeatedly and it’s gibberish. Rogues don’t just flat-out lack the tools needed to competent tank a dungeon/trash pulls, they’re hard gatekept by energy/combo point mechanics from building any kind of threat lead on more than a single target even via tab-targeting. It’s one thing to be better or worse one encounter or dungeon or raid here or there; it’s a completely different beast when the class lacks the ability to perform the basic function of a tank in an entire area of content. If a tank class can’t actually tank a dungeon competently, it’s not a tank class.
wcl has an insanely small number of rogue tank parses, and I’m sure we can owe part of that to the stupid decision to gate tank runes behind shredder parts and rep, but if rogues were the peerless raid boss tanks everyone insists they are or will be, top players would be rushing to play them in the same way they all rushed to play scorpid hunters.
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You are gonna be happier to go play a monk on retail if that is what you’re looking for.
I’m sorry, but this post proves you have 0 idea what you’re doing and/or talking about. Tab targeting is 100% an issue, if you had done any sort of serious tanking you’d know that this is pretty much a fundamental part of being a tank. Rogues being punished for swapping targets is an issue, at least when they are in the ‘tank’ role.
You are actually suggesting a rogue tank let Blade Dance fall intentionally as part of their rotation? You want your tank to go from ~40% DR to ~20% and rely on… ~25% parry? The tank with +0% increased health pool, that can be crushed? Why take these risks. Better yet, why utilize a tank that takes risks like this at all when I could take a warrior that can aoe threat, do more single target, and not roll the dice on his survivability like this?
You’re also suggesting we use Main Gauche, which if you go look at warcraftlogs you will quickly see no rogue tank is using this rune. It is objectively TRASH. Opening with Main Gauche is hindering your opening threat potential. You’re doing like… a fifth of the threat and damage that one Saber Slash will give you (not counting the dot). 10% parry for 10 seconds (with a following 10sec downtime, lol) is not worth the tradeoff.
Electric guitar or violin - they have their differences sure, but do you know what they both have in common? They function and perform their role. Our ‘violin’ in this case is missing a string, and is sorely out of tune.
Suggesting warrior tanks have no restraint/discipline/control is also a silly and insulting generalization. I’d argue all 3 of these things are essential to a good tank player.
Also, you can’t tease or gouge adds without losing your cp (and it’s 45 energy, goodbye all/most of your resources), further illustrating the problem that I and others have been pointing out in this thread.
inb4 more ‘Just wait, rogues will be op gods later’ posts. You guys do know the other classes will also continue to get more powerful, right?
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Yeah you can totally weave blade dance, evasion, and main gauche.
If you are spending some points on expose armor to pair with faerie fire.
You are complaining about having blade dance up while you have combo points to spend.
You spent your points on the wrong targets, you should have tabbed earlier.
You’re digging your hole even deeper.
What are you talking about? Weave blade dance/evasion/main gauche? You told me you let blade dance drop, to then main gauche. You just advocated for splitting these abilities up, now you’re saying to stack them? Which is it?
Why are you even mentioning expose armor? -400 armor at 25 is being used by no one, sunder is a superior buff and it overwrites Expose. No rogue is exposing in this phase. Tank or DPS. The fact you’re even mentioning it is both telling and confusing.
You are complaining about having blade dance up while you have combo points to spend.
You spent your points on the wrong targets, you should have tabbed earlier.
What. Are you even reading the thread?
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You can’t play rogue, because you’re too hot headed, not cool enough.
Thank you for your outstanding contribution to this discussion.
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You have a thread asking for tank advice but are in here trying to lecture me about tanking. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
We are using Riposte. Riposte is not an answer to the inherent clunkiness present with rogue tanking. Multi-target tanking feels bad and awkward, energy and CP do not lend themselves well to multi-target tanking.
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just pointing out what is working compared to what isn’t, the class is doing fine, and I’m sorry if its not serious enough for you.
every tank in this stage of the game is woefully in complete all part of being level 25
I think people just don’t like the rogue aspect of combo points and energy, having a blast.
Agreed. It should feel incomplete. I (and I think others) are raising our voices about the tab-target CP issue just because Blizzard has already given an indication that they don’t intend to do anything about it: https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1728891917033972067
There’s a very real possibility that this design for rogue tanking just stays as is, unless people give them feedback.
Fortunately I’m also seeing that they like the idea of tanks tab-targeting: https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1732622797766340950
Boring, thought-terminating cliche. Just keep posting it though, I’m sure it’ll convince somebody you’re right.
Why in the world would you ever let blade dance drop? What in the world are talking about? You realize it provides 20% of your physical damage mitigation, flat-out, while it’s active right??