This is the same argument you could make for bear tanks.
Did bears work in casual play? Sure. Pre buff, could you really do anything with any DPS players slightly above average percentile? No.
This doesn’t mean it’s constructive to tell those bear players to “go fishing dude, the class isn’t broken.”
They were objectively worse off, and needed buffs. They received them.
Be constructive, or don’t contribute to the conversation.
I think burning through 70 charges would pose a problem for plugg, but you can reapply poison between phases 
Make the parry bonus a lot bigger but have it last for only 1-2 parries, and maybe someone would have a use for it
Agreed, rogues have been backed into daggers by bad class redesign and in turn the tanking is lack luster.
Ive mained rogue consistently other than WOD since 2004, and it feels pretty meh rn compared to playing other SOD classes.
I 99ed parsed through classic era with daggers.
While swords is better earlier, BS builds were easily performing with or better than a sword rogue.
Name is Ahtrahddis if you would like to check the logs and weapons I used in fights. I wanted to play swords IEA ofc, but our tanks had sword prio usually.
These changes would actually help
“99 parsing” as a class in classic era that’s exclusively brought for improved exposed armor is like bragging about being the tallest midget. Dagger is playing for you, IEA/Hemo is playing for the raid. Or a hunter that’s full WB dpsing while the other hunters pull.
You’re “performing equal or better” to a comparison raid slot that’s deliberately torpedoing it’s DPS to add to 10-15 warriors dps… and your dps.
You’d need to take those numbers, and find out the average increase of IEA per melee in the raid. Then sum that number, add it to the IEA sword rogue’s DPS, and that’s their actual dps… Quite probably significantly highest in raid, because that’s how support works.
I’m in favor of daggers being a viable weapon type for Rogues to reduce weapon bloat - and because without Rogue using them they wont be used, but I think comparing existing dagger DPS vs Imp EA dps for classic era is disingenuous.
Agreed, without mutilate being where it is there would be literally no saving grace for rogues atm.
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Dagger rogues typically play IEA for raiding purposes, youre still doing IEA, just CP building with BS instead of SS.
Feel free to check those logs to see how IEA is still cycled in while I was the main IEA rogue but had to use daggers to free up swords for other classes in prog.
Did you say you play rogue?
Why would you play IEA as daggers? That’s wildly, and aggressively suboptimal.
Edit: Checked the parses of the rogue you listed… Avg lifetime 77, world buffed 82…
Insanely isolated 99’s, and only/exclusively fights with zero casts of IEA.
Daggers aren’t for IEA super chief. Daggers are for hemo, or combat daggers. Daggers aren’t for IEA, you don’t take IEA as any dagger build… Not enough points.
Not sure you checked the correct log, WotLK era for 2021 vanilla raids. Pink, orange, and purple all the way through each classic raid.
Also, it looks like the most recent Naxx clear from Feb 2021 is archieved, so you definitely can’t see the IEA casts, not sure where you found that info.
And IEA dagger build was plenty to get into top 1000 world rogues for BWL, and ensure the guild prog’ed well, so I’ll take it. In fact, double checking, dagger IEA had me with straight 99’s on every single BWL boss.
classic.warcraftlogs/character/us/benediction/ahtrahddis?zone=1006#zone=1002
Wait did you just reference… wotlk era… in classic raids… 
ohhhhhhhh, you’re the guy making the thread insisting he’s not a hunter but hunters shouldn’t be nerfed that then got exposed to be a hunter.
Out of curiosity, why are daggers better for hemo? Isn’t it based on some variation of MH damage + AP?
I’ve never tried hemo in classic
Sorovil pops up in every rogue tank thread to tell the top 10% (or higher) of rogue tanks/players that they’re all wrong and how he has all the answers. ‘Just use Riposte guys!’. Riposte isn’t doing crap against 500-1000 AOE dps that some of these classes are outputting my man lol. Even the average idiot can pull off ludicrous DPS with their new flashy SoD buttons.
He is a grey/green parsing DPS rogue who plays goofy PvP ‘fun’ specs in his raids.
This is a dumb gotcha.
You didn’t indicate anything about the logs you mentioned so it seems you just made up the numbers you posted to try and elevate your claims.
The logs I provided a link to are for the most recent fresh classic servers, all vanilla raids as a rogue in the reference patch. This would be most comparable to expected rogue performance in classic and was before the servers rolled into gdkp and carry runs as a primary means of raiding.
I even stated the logs are for Feb 2021.
Also, I dont know what thread you’re referencing concerning hunters, stop making stupid red herrings and counter point or sit down.
In fact, link me your rogue log with a single 99 and I’d be amazed
And daggers are for hemo are you intentionally trolling or have no clue what youre talking about in vanilla?
Daggers aren’t better for hemo.
A hemo rogue should run high MH weapon dmg for scaling, and are recommended to use swords in classic. There is a case for a fast OH weapon, but this is more subjective to what you’re doing and weapons are available.
You want swords predominately as the highest MH weapon dmg in classic is on swords, but really any high MH weapon dmg is fine. Daggers dont have this since they are scaled dmg to normalize with their speed.
I used a Castigator for awhile with Hemo and it pumped in PvP
If you’re daggers, you run Backstab Combat Daggers or Seal Fate in PvE for max dps
For PvP daggers, you run Imp Sprint Backstab.
Other PvP builds can be very good too, but this is ideal as daggers is entirely positioning reliant in classic so the extra mobility while out of stealth feels really good in pvp.
Ooooh I hit a nerve I suppose, just ignore me and move on, just because the hive mind couldn’t figure out rogue tanks in phase 1 and declared them bad, then moved the goalposts to top tier end game raiding rogues aren’t perfect for phase 2 doesn’t mean you guys don’t know what you’re doing. just admit you guys jumped to conclusions before giving the class a shot circle jerked around for a while and landed here. I understand the parse culture tells you how cool you are but you mostly came off as whiney.
For weapon speed, let’s pretend I’m not too worried about poison application and I’m not specc’d into sword specialization in the combat tree. Would weapon speed for my off-hand matter at that point?
Hum, less so I would think with the stipulations you mentioned.
The main reason a rogue aims for a fast OH in classic (1.12 reference) is because posions are not normalized until around 3.1. So a faster OH will yield a higher PPM than a slower, and poison dmg can add up to a good deal of a rogues total dps. Especially with high armor targets like the current gnomer bosses.
If you werent worried about poison ppm though, then Id think the highest OH dmg weapon regardless of speed is ideal. With mutilate build this could be warranted too - particularly in fast PvP encounters
I main a rogue tank. I’m not using Mutilate(even though I know it’s the current meta). I’m choosing to use the actual tanking runes. With the buff to Main Gauche today, I’m hoping it helps the rune a lot.
Ultimately, I’m guessing using a fast dagger for my off-hand to apply instant poison will still yield better dps than using another high dps sword in my off-hand.