Yep, Daggers are PVP! You can later in game be decent in pve with daggers but it requires thistle teas and things to make you have position and energy available for those back stabs.
Leveling combat slow maces or swords ftw. Maybe when I have enough points to get hemo and extra talents ill try daggers again
I am curious how many people who say rogues leveling as combat swords have tried other specs?
With sub, you can 3 shot many enemies of the same level. Without having to use gouge. Bears and turtles with heavy armor excluded.
Sub is horrible until 20. Once you hit 20 it opens up nicely. Plus with sub you can opt to put points into improved sap
so am i. I don’t thik they have truly tried a remorseless/ambush dagger leveling grind.
‘not a fast way of dispatching mobs’ ? are you kidding me? there is no one that can drop a mob as fast except …fire mage who has to drink after the 2nd kill.
‘good luck doing quest’ ? uh…stealth to quest mob, kill in 5 seconds, stealth out?
i have done both…and i find daggers much faster (though having money for big damage ambush daggers is a must). literally 3 or 4 quests that were not ‘hard’ but i actually had to eat a few times (rock elemental line in badlands)
Yeah. I was grouping with someone yesterday and i was able to chain pull and they had to keep drinking. I also tried assassin but definitely prefer sub because of the better stealth stuff
I would go dagger just because dagger loot table progression is really solid. They made the effort to make sure a good dagger drops in just about every other dungeon.
Swords is like… Wait for the thrash blade and compete with fury warriors and every other rogue.
Problem with that compared to sword is solo / not being able to get behind easy. Plus swords help with multi-targets.
This, not that you cant level as anything else, sword just way more efficient.
I leveled as Sub until mid 50s. Went swords to level faster / easier. Now back to daggers, but more in a pve raiding spec.
As Sub, leveling was fine, but slower. But also had more escapes / utility is pvp happened.
(from another thread)
60 my pvp is build is…
Assassination:
3/3 imp evis, 5/5 malice
2/2 murderer
1/1 relentless, 5/5 lethality
Combat:
3/3 gouge, 2/2 sin
3/3 imp backstab, 2/5 percision
2/2 imp sprint
Sub:
2/5 MoD, 5/5 Opp
5/5 camo
3/3 imp ambush
3/3 imp sap, 3/3 serrated blades
hemo and prep
My leveling build was (well I started sub, but swapped to combat to blow through pve easier)…
Assassination:
3/3 imp evis, 5/5 malice
3/3 rutheless
1/1 relentless, 4/5 lethality
Combat:
3/3 gouge, 2/2 sin
5/5 deflection, 5/5 percision
riposte
5/5 offhand
flurry, 5/5 sword spec
2/2 weapon expert, 3/3 aggression
AR
Sub:
2/5 MoD
But now after raiding some as hemo spec, I can help more and still roll on daggers if I went combat daggers for raiding, so went that way for now.
I’ve seen combat daggers and cold blood hemo. I prefer combat swords, never had to switch specs. Just play the style you like, I’m sure they’re each sustainable. At 60 combat daggers and coldblood hemo both do pretty good.
With combat swords you don’t have to stealth to any mobs, can pull and kill multiple targets at once, have a 10 energy sinister strike with a disarm. You don’t have to count on lucky drops from dungeons or mobs for decent weapons either. There is a very clear and easy path to acquiring strong swords throughout leveling, heck at level 45 I was running around with a Thrash Blade just wrecking mobs. In dungeons forget about it too because daggers is losing in damage by double digits percentages easily. I was beating a level 60 dagger rogue as a 54 through BRD just 2 days ago and he never caught up until he scored Barman’s Shanker.
I’ve been playing rogues for 15 years, leveled multiple on pservers and combat swords is the most efficient way to level. Yeah, you can run around with daggers and it might be less brain dead but it doesn’t hold a candle to swords while leveling.
I remember leveling my rogue in vanilla as sub. Not saying the correct thing to do, but I always loved the ambush talent because it would take a mob to half health.
That toon never got to 60 though. Maybe 40s.
at lvl 45 i was 3 shotting mobs with gut ripper. great stretch of lvls. as i said you have to pay for daggers or combat is better
-what is wrong with stealthing to mobs? you get there half a second earlier and a half second later the ambush damage passes ya. /shrug. taking slightly longer to engage next mob sometimes, but othertimes its way faster because you have to heal/eat/bandage way more because you tank the mobs much longer.
i know, ez mode is best mode mentality and i agree in parts but… as i said originally (And you admitted to with your friend who you were better than…until he got a decent dagger) IF you gear yourself daggers are legit.
Because the game hands you free swords from quests. And you don’t have to rely on backstabbing for your damage. So it’s an overall faster leveling experience
Yes but at level 60 he should have been ahead the entire dungeon and not just the last 1/4 of it especially when the mobs start to outlevel me at 54. The sword spec talents are just too huge combined with windfury if you’re horde and thrash blade which is viable all the way up to being a fresh 60.
I’m not trying to crap on daggers if it sounds like I am. I know they have their place in the game and as a guy that 90% pve at the moment they just aren’t my style.
What is this amazing dagger spec you speak so fondly of if you don’t mind me asking? I’d like to see it
Anyone see Kargoz’s combat dagger build? Thoughts?
Gouge is available to swords as well
id say the key talents in order i did them really no throw aways
at lvl 24
-remoreseless 2/2, (+40% ambush crit)
-opportunity 5/5 (20% damage on ambush and bs)
-camo 5/5 (stealth faster and move much faster stealthed, personal thing i could not do without this in any build)
-improved ambush 3/3 (45% ambush crit so 85% total just in these talents)
your pretty set right there. every ambush is crit.
after that id say build to in w/e order you feel best
Combat
3/3 gouge (gives you time to dance before backstabbing)
2/2 ss (have to spend 2 more there to get precision)
5/5 precision (5% hit)
assassination
5/5 malice (5% more crit)
3/3 evis (15% damage on evis)
5/5 lethality (30% crit damage bonus on almost all the skills i use, gouge, backstab, gs, ss,)
after that it seems to me preference…
build down to prep (3 vanishishes is nice, with improves sap added in that scary 2 mob group camps that some think bladefury can only master is dead in 10 seconds…wiothout having to tank 2) or go down to dagger spec in combat.
or( im switching to when im done pickpocket farming for epic mount) build down to dagger spec for the extra 5% crit.
You took increase speed while stealth but not deception for increased stealth? What about mobs seeing you in stealth while leveling or pick pocketing?
seems like waste to me, can’t think of a single time i was spotted and wished i had it
Depends on the player on the rogue, if you’ve never played a rogue before in classic/tbc, you’ll be lost.
I play Seal of Fate build, I do not get vigor, not worth yet, and going in deep into combat for blade flurry. This build can work with any weapon, or preferred weapon type. I prefer swords so /shrug
I think it largely depends on what you are going for when leveling. Are you trying to be a master of stealth? I suggest waiting till 60 to worry about it. You could do it while leveling, you would at least have a better understanding of how your spec and the rogue would work better if you are building up to it though.
But if you want easy mod, go combat and put points into assassination for almost all the top three tiers of talents other then improved slice and dice. You want the energy return from combo points and that extra combo point form finishers, as well as the extra dmg for evic and crit chance from exp/HK.
Well my focus is pick pocket farming for my mounts, ganking people and 3rd: leveling
And I kinda want to use daggers.
The trick to leveling as a rogue is minimizing downtime and speed, to do that you need to have a quick method to open with a dagger in the main hand for Ambush and then switch to swords immediately.
Now I’ve looked everywhere and tried different macros but for some reason it wont switch to swords until I am out of combat .
there’s an addon called Itemrack for Classic and its supposed to do that but doesn’t, many people say "make a macro to pull from you bags and just assign a key to do that , but I cant get a working macro. I’m guessing its a Classic thing , IDK.
But sadly Combat swords are the way to level for speed and less downtime , I wish I could Ambush and get her done that way because I love the Sub spec and Daggers in particular