Rogue race Orc vs Undead

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
21

Orc stun resist is really good, but like you mentioned, there’s a “look factor” :joy:

Aesthetics are very important, so go Undead IMO.

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22

If you are a PvPer and you can play Orc for your class, you should.

Stuns make up the largest portion of control in a PvP scenario and hardiness is massive.

I think Undead Rogues are great for their potential against a typically low-population class; Alliance Warlocks.

But then you go a bit further and Orcs have Blood Fury. Which is just amazing. When you’re the only Rogue in a premade and you’re in WSG, having Blood Fury to retrieve a flag or defend your flag room is invaluable. Plus you’re more than likely going to be solo. And this translates to AB where you will probably sit Farm or Stables and have to deal with a Rogue or Druid opening. Although if a Rogue spots you, you’re probably going to get sapped instead of cheap shot.

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23

Well, the best hunter weapons are all crossbows until Rhok’delar, and the very next dungeon replaces it with Ashj’re Thul, Crossbow of Smiting. I know the AQ bow was a sidegrade at best. 0.6dps higher, but 0.7 seconds faster, and even if you wanted to upgrade from Ash’j’re Thul, the gun from Ouro was better. Bows didn’t come out on top again until Naxx, and not many guilds were able to down the four horsemen before BC hit in vanilla, and I think I can say no hunter ever downed 4 horsemen, in era, who hadn’t been hit capped for a long while.

I will absolutely agree that, if the post buff Berserking goes live, Trolls are certainly a contender for best pve Hunter race, since pets were pretty useless on raids for the majority of vanilla, and Blood Rage didn’t affect ranged attack or spell power until well past vanilla. But +5 bow skill just gave a little +hit, and the Enrage mechanic necessitated making it easy for hunters to reach the +hit cap (biznicks accurascope, anyone?) PvP, there isn’t a contest due to stun resist and pets being a much bigger deal.

24

You know weapon skill does more than just +hit, right? Weapon skill also decreased the damage penalty from a glancing blow.

25

Depends what you want to counter. Orc is good against melee and hunters. Undead is good against locks and priests.

I’m probably going orc. I think that the undead racial is very strong but it’s very easily predicted in pvp. I would rather just have the rogue pvp trinket to swap as needed. It also breaks polymorph which is nice.

26

No, I didn’t know that. But my point remains valid that bows are only used for a very short time in Vanilla.

27

Yeah, I never thought +bow was anywhere near as useful as +mace / sword. Humans definitely got the best weapon skill racial in the game.

28

Not only do hunters try to steal our weapons, they try to steal our threads too. :rage:

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29

Bloody Huntards.

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30

Ranged weapons do not get glancing blows, only melee. That is why bow and gun skill are not as useful as sword/mace or even axe specialization. To answer OP orcs are considered the best pvp race in vanilla for all classes that they can be because of hardiness 25% stun resist. Think of it as a 25% chance to trinket HoJ, cheap shot, kidney shot, charge, intercept, intimidation, imp concussion shot, blackout, impact, improved starfire(lol), cresting charm, iron grenades( considered a stun) and any other stuns I forgot.

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31

I know that TBC and onward that was the case, but I thought pre 2.0.1 ranged attacks could be a glancing blow? I remember there being a different formula for glancing blow calculations for melee and ranged classes. Am I just mixing that up with something else?

32

Its funny but increasingly true.

AV version thread? HUNTARD THREAD
Rogue race threads? HUNTARD THREAD

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33

Why not at least consider Troll. The berserk racial comes in handy pretty frequently tbh. Consider that, with combat daggers…

34

Yes, it’s true, us trolls were pretty rare,…
But i regenerate 5 health per second, and there wasn’t a damn thing you could do about it…
Qil

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35

The only reason why not is that Berserking is dependant on % of health missing. There is a 10% bonus from 100% to 70% then another 10% bonus from 69% to 30%, and below that is another 10%, capping at 30% bonus.

Given that you probably shouldn’t be taking too much damage in PvE as a Rogue with Feint and Vanish, you probably won’t get full use of this.

In addition, Blood Fury has a flat 25% attack power bonus. It isn’t based on any metric aside from your total attack power. Most pre-bis Rogues have about 600 attack power, so 1/4 of that is quite a bit. As you reach Naxx and achieve that 1000+ unbuffed AP, you are going to notice the Blood Fury spike.

Rogues also have the added benefit of Slice and Dice. You won’t be using that in PvP, so that leaves you with PvE, in which you will more than likely be Combat Swords/Daggers until Naxxramas when you can run Seal Fate Swords. Blade Flurry gives you an additional 20% attack speed. So between the 2, you are at 50%. You’re trading a 25% attack power bonus for a paltry 10% attack speed during a heavy attack speed bonus cooldown phase. Add in Juju Flurry from Wintersaber E’ko and you have another 3%.

At this point you’re already hitting attack speed cap so the 25% bonus melee damage is even more so better.

Just personal opinion. I do think Trolls look really cool ;].

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36

Just looked it up and I was wrong in that ranged did indeed get glancing blows in vanilla. You are correct that the formulas for ranged and melee are different. Ranged had a 60% chance at level 60 and melee had a 40% chance for GB to occur and these numbers couldn’t change. The damage on GB could not crit and would do 30% less damage at weapon skill 300. Every point above 300 weapon skill would reduce the damage penalty by a certain percentage but could not reduce the chance of them occurring. This was only for melee though. Weapon skill above 300 on bows, crossbows and guns did not reduce GB damage penalty on ranged attacks and that was the reason the two ranged racials were not as good as the melee ones.

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37

Undead has the slightest edge here for PvP. Orcs and Taurens are going to be a problem for rogues, but since you’re horde you can let the ally rogues worry about those two. I’ve seen rogues DISAPPEAR in a warstomp versus a geared warrior, not a good look for rogues, but again… not going to be your problem.

With your ability to lockdown healers, wotf will go a lot further. You can change a bg entirely by keeping healers completely pressured and priests wont be able to ditch you. When a warrior int shouts you and firstaids back to full then bleeds you, you’re going to be in trouble if you’re an orc. If a warlock or spriest gets you in fear, lol trouble.

If you play rogue with finesse, as you should be, you’ll appreciate wotf more than any other racial. Just watch out for human warriors…

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38

I disagree, Orcs have the edge in a PvP setting. When playing as Horde, warlocks on the Alliance side are fewer in number due to the massive disadvantage against Undead players who are the bane to their existence. I won’t refute that Undead is a poor choice. It’s evident they’re a solid choice in PvP and have appealing aesthetic for rogues. Back to my point, If you consider all nine classes, two are fear based, such as priest and warlock. While the rest include stuns, snares, engineering gadgets etc. On top of that rogues have access to a PvP trinket which enables the player to get out of fear and polymorph effects if I’m correct. However, while Orcs do sit as a top PvP choice, they also excel in PvE from the racial blood fury which is a 25% bonus AP every 2min. So this makes the race selection quite simple if you’re seeking to min/max.

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40

undead have will of forsaken and orc has dps cd and 25% resist to stuns. Other then that play what you think is cooler. Its Classic, play what you want and enjoy it.

42

On the orc you can’t eat bodies of ganked nawbs. Easy pick.

Also 300% underwater breathing is pretty neat for classic.