This is all gonna depend on the target you’re hitting. I’m gonna assume the ppl being smacked have pretty solid gear.
Tank with shield = you hit them for 300-400dmg crits
Class with plate (or cheater boomkin class) = 800~ crits
Mail wearers = 1k-1.1k~ crits
Clothies/leather = 1.2-1.4k~ crits (we set their armor values to 0 or close to it with sebacious)
In slightly structured pvp where rogues are assigned to base defending/back capping I think they are pretty useful unless the enemies have a tank on every flag in which case you’ll need like 3 rogues to take them down (if they even can lol). In the bigger fights it’s hard to be useful due to the incredible amount of damage that gets pumped into a rogue.
I will say rogue is also pretty gear dependent. Marshal/Field Marshal gear is solid stats wise but without 2/4pc bloodfang tankier dps will feel like raid bosses atm yeah.
Comments like these are what make me think you don’t actually pvp on rogue. Muta hasn’t been a damage increase since P4. Bstab is just bettter now.
The last time I tried mut was phase 2, just heard it was the PvE spec and assumed it might have similar damage boosts in PvP because Envenom bypasses armor. I have a 60 field marshal rogue, and a 60 warlord rogue. Don’t know why I’d lie about having a rogue.
Backstab is slightly better dps in pve atm given both players are bis.
Should mention that bstab is also substantially harder to play because mutilate rotation is (muti → muti → SnD) → muti → muti → Envenom
You run HaT/cttc so all yo end up doing the majority of fights is muti → muti → Envenom with a poison knife thrown in sometimes or cutting out the second envenom.
Gives you some small authority on the subject matter, I could believe you’ve played rogues in earlier versions of SoD or other versions of WoW but your takes on P5/6 SOD rogue pvp seem pretty off…
I don’t PvE outside of thunderaan, so I wouldn’t know nor care.
I have achievements galore on my account if I wanted to flex authority. I feel like if someone were going to lie about something, they’d lie about not playing a rogue, not playing one.
I’d post on all my various rogues throughout all the various editions of the game (including sod), but it isn’t letting me change my posting character.
yeah yeah you and everybody else who played WoW is a 10x glad player with infinite experience.
I don’t care, I’m not saying you’re a bad player or don’t know rogue gameplay in other iterations of the game. Just that your comments on P5/6 rogue experience seems out of touch. (see swap to mutilate comment)
Na I’m a duelist pleb. I do have arena master back from wotlk though. To be fair that was as a healy boi and not a rogue. Swapped to priest to learn how to play it to be able to tell others what to do as my rogue… then just never swapped back to rogue main lol.
Just heard comments that made me make assumptions. Been hearing my friend talk about how he’s seen rogues blow up pallies before, and thought maybe as mutilate that it could be done, as I’ve had a much… less great experience due to being globaled by full geared pallies.
To be fair, I grinded out the honor caps on both rogues at once and have pretty much stopped pvping all together after that due to burnout… and mostly stopped playing the game all together since then, so it is possible. I just doubt that much has changed, as the devs on the game move at a snails pace. Just been doin thunderaan on my alliance rogue to maybe someday see windstriker, and on my horde rogue spamming BFD to someday see the ring of shadowsight.
In battlegrounds, rogues have a ton of utility. They can 1v1 well, they can Sap&Cap, they can stun/slow GY rezzers, easily kill clothies and healers, and many other things.
The problem is the player haha. Sooo many rogues just mounting right into the battle (without even hitting stealth!), not using any of their advantages, and generally not knowing their class.
BGs are always so much more tense and fun when skilled rogues are around.
meta locks/shamans who aren’t morons/warriors who aren’t morons(equip shield)/druids who aren’t morons are all immune to sap plays for flags and will not die to the rogue unless their gear is trash.
Another person who seems to not actually play rogue in SoD throwing out their opinion.
honestly having gone against your gnome rouge at farm on my shaman (who was in ghost wolf form with poison cleansing totem up) and losing still cause of the 20 other ccs and other rogue backup you brought leads me to believe that you arent being as honest as you think about the situation.
you are a good rogue though so i defer to you a bit on this but still.
rogues have quite a bit more than sap to work with and you know it.
I can’t remember the last time I lost a 1v1 at GM on my rogue. I even had a human rogue switch to a horde toon and say I was cheating cuz he had perception, and I still got the sap on him. I told him its call “pre-vanish”. LOL
He just wants somewhere to vent, and I get that. Rogues are incredibly easy to kill in SoD BGs, but they do have all of the utility listed above still. /shrug
The answer is definitely not a damage increase though when it comes to BGs.
Personally I think adding cloak of shadow would be a great thing for PVP.
naw it thing bodytypegun is a good rogue , ive ran into his premade (im guessing its a premade) and them at the farm which ive defended quite a few times and know that a determined rogue wanting to take a point against a solo player of most any class is a scary thing.
i dont think they need a nerf though as it takes a big combo of skills in a random order to even pull off some of what ive seen them doing so i dont really have shame i lost a few times.
“Oh no I can’t sap the target… if only I had some sort of, other ability that incapacitated for a similar duration to blind that would let me reset my stun rotation that works on all the targets you just mentioned… alas no such thing called gouge exists.”
Unless you’re talking about spamming sap on them for the purpose of keeping them there for your team to catch up, it really is a non issue.
That said, those classes are often still tanky enough to survive rogues, though maybe a BiS rogue would have more luck at choppin em down.
Not gonna lie, this makes me flinch a bit.
I’ve got 2 rogue mains, and even I think this is a terrible idea, as much as I want it. Not having CoS is one of the only things keeping rogue having so much damage and control not as over the top as it could be.
i get the same reaction with undead rogues but ya.
honestly going against a rogue 1v1 defending a flag in ab its like playing a chess game but the rogue has more pieces than you do and you almost are always starting at a disadvantage . (with and without a trinket even).
but i do not feel they need to nerf their damage or anything really.
this is coming from someone who hates when you just have to sit back with your hands off the keyboard while the rogue completely controls you and your ability to play or not.
and one of my toons is an orc ele shaman who should be resisting stuns more than other classes.
rogues are fine though as in most organized pvp the only time they are op is going 1v1 with batman setup in mind.
in group combat they are squishy and less dangerous.
It’s why I always loved rogue 1v1’s even as a rogue back in OG TBC. Used to sit out in front of org and duel rogues non stop, and it’s always interesting. Duels in general with rogue are interesting, it’s a fun class. Definitely not a class you want to make a mistake against when going against.
I think it could be toned down a bit, but it also isn’t as bursty as some of the other classes. The pressure is created by the stuns and you just having to sit there and take it, so it feels like a lot of burst, but it’s more about uncontested steady damage being applied.
It’s weird, on my orc rogue it feels like I never resist stuns. On my human rogue, it feels like every orc I try to stun is just permanently immune to my stuns. I’ve had it where I’ll cheap shot, and it’ll resist. I’ll vanish and do it again, and it will resist. I’ll kidney, and it’ll resist… and I’m just like… FML. RNGesus is ruthless at times.
Agreed, though they can snipe your healer if you aren’t careful.
I said most classes OUTSIDE of priest and mage are capable of being “tank classes” read it again homeboy. Every single one of your examples and scenarios are pretty much purely 1v1 scenarios. Those do NOT happen that often in AB unless like you said you are just solo guarding flags every game.
