I have been a rogue main in the high end raiding community since Legion. The below changes, while a step in the right direction, do not go far enough in addressing the core issues with Atrophic Poison and the viability of Rogue in the upcoming tier. I want to discuss the issues with Atrophic Poison and fight design, the solutions Blizzard has implemented for other classes in a similar situation, and some proposed solutions for Rogues.
Apologies as I can not post links in this forum post (long time listener first time caller), however I have evidence from logs to support every claim made in this post.
Current Tier Representation
At the time of this posting, there are 911 logged kills of Mythic L’ura. 156 (17%) of these kills do not have a Rogue. The next closest class is Paladin, missing from 24 (2.6%) kills. The sum of all kills missing any class other than Rogue is 104 (11.4%). Compare this to DK and DH, which are represented in every single kill at the time of this posting.
This representation issue has not been limited to the current raid tier, merely the poor tuning of rogue at the beginning of the tier exacerbated this issue. Zorthas made a video covering tuning changes made to Mystic Touch in Manaforge Omega PTR cycle. As part of Zorthas’ video, he discusses total class representation on Mythic Gallywix. Rogue was similarly one of the least represented classes on Mythic Gallywix.
To summarize, a 3.6% DR to some damage has historically not been enough to justify playing a Rogue in your comp when Rogue is performing weak numerically (as evidenced by this tier).
Atrophic Poison Issues
When Atrophic Poison works, it is already stronger than Devotion Aura (3.6% vs 3%). On Mythic L’ura, Atrophic Poison is significantly stronger than Devotion Aura due to fight design. Atrophic Poison mitigates damage through the phase change for the matching game in P1 and cannot be outranged in the intermission. The big boon to Atrophic Poison is that all of the periodic damage to the raid is sourced from the “left side” L’ura in P3, allowing the rogue to mitigate damage dealt to the entire raid versus only 10 people. Even the glimmer damage from holding a crystal throughout the fight is sourced from L’ura.
The strength of Atrophic Poison on L’ura however, has historically been a weakness of the ability. Atrophic Poison is only applicable to damage sourced from a mob that atrophic is applied to (duh). If the damage is coded to be environmental damage or is from a source that the Rogue is unable to attack then Atrophic Poison gets zero value. Take a fight like Forgeweaver Araz from Manaforge Omega. Atrophic Poison contributed roughly a quarter of the value of Devotion Aura on this fight last tier. The proposed buff to 4% (4.8% with Master Poisoner) is not an impactful solution if Atrophic Poison is not applicable to damage sources next tier.
12.1 Patch Issues
The current fight design and damage allocation is looking bleak for Rogue and Atrophic Poison. Of the 7 tested heroic bosses last week, 6 have logged kills. Atrophic Poison is stronger than Devotion Aura on a single fight, Sszorak, even at 4.8% DR. In fact, on a The Lost Explorers log Atrophic Poison provides less mitigation over the course of the fight than a single Druid’s Barkskin. Analyzing logs of the other publicly logged kills, Atrophic Poison ranges from 55% to 70% of the value of Devotion Aura while being “1.8% stronger” numerically. On this a The Twin Fangs log, a single Restoration Shaman’s Healing Stream Totem (via Elemental Resistance) provided more DR to the raid than Atrophic Poison, all while the Shaman is additionally providing Skyfury.
From the heroic testing done so far, the 3% > 4% buff is no where close to enough to make atrophic poison a valuable raid buff. Rogue’s will instead be limited to being brought purely on throughput and class tuning considerations.
Hunter’s Mark and Death Grip
Before discussing potential solutions, I want to include a short section on Hunter’s Mark.
Hunter’s Mark was re-added to the game in 10.2 as a raid buff for Hunters. The initial implementation left the class in a similar boat to where Rogue is currently, where if Hunter was under-tuned or if the first 20% of a boss’s health was not relevant to killing a boss then Hunters would not see play. Dimensius exemplified this issue where Hunters were sat by the RWF guilds and many in the high end community, to the point that Hunters Mark recieved a significant rework and became a mandatory raid buff going into Midnight.
In fact, due to Hunters Mark being limited to a single target and the many multi-target fights of this first tier, multiple Hunters were played on all of the key fights of the tier. Blizzard recognized that this was oppressive to overall raid composition and is reworking Hunter’s Mark so that a single Hunter can apply multiple Hunter’s Mark, hopefully freeing up 1-2 raid slots in the upcoming tier featuring many multi-target fights.
Death Knights have historically been in a similar situation to Rogues with niche utility and being dependent on fight design/class tuning to be justified in a raid composition. In the above Zorthas video referenced, Death Knights competed with Rogues for seeing the least representation in the Undermine tier. There has been much discussion by the Death Knight class and Blizzard about Death Grip being considered Death Knight’s raid buff, to the point where fight design the last two tiers have required multiple Death Knights for grips on the end boss of the tier.
The Solution
I believe there are multiple different ways for Blizzard to address the issues with Atrophic Poison and Rogue viability in the upcoming tier, outside of just pure numerical tuning.
In the upcoming 12.1 Patch Blizzard is introducing an update to the Valeera delve companion. Let’s take some inspiration from this lore archetype and apply it to the class.
Atrophic Poison is equivalent to the Bloodcrypt Toxin being added, so let’s put Soulthirst Venom on a choice node with Atrophic poison at a reduced strength (3-5% leech/avoidance/speed for the raid). This will provide Rogue’s with a useful defensive utility option on a fight like Forgeweaver Araz where Atrophic Poison is not applicable to the majority of the damage dealt to the raid, while keeping in-line with the defensive raid buff option. Mind-Numbing Poison could then be made a baseline ability, providing Rogue’s with multiple baseline non-lethal poison options.
Alternatively Rogues could receive a damage oriented raid buff. Druid’s provide a versatility buff while Shaman’s provide a mastery buff. Provide Rogues with a 3% haste or 3% critical strike buff to the raid. Both of these have historical precedence where Rogue’s provided melee haste to the raid in MoP via Swiftblade’s Cunning. Taking inspiration from classic as well would be a reworked Honor Among Thieves where Rogues could provide critical strike chance or increased critical strike damage to the raid instead of benefiting from your allies critical strikes as in Classic.
Summary
The proposed changes for Atrophic Poison on the PTR are nowhere near enough to secure Rogues a position in their raid’s mythic comp for the upcoming tier. Rogue’s need an alternative defensive raid buff that is applicable in all situations or Rogues need to provide a damage increase to the raid to secure a raid spot. Please take the proposed Atrophic Poison changes a step further so that Rogues will see increased representation in the upcoming The Venomous Abyss raid tier.