It’s supposed to reward comparable gear. That is the entire point.
If you want to log on 1 or 2 days a week to raid, then log off because no other content rewards decent gear, classic is waiting for you.
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I want challenge mode dungeons back again. And clearly you haven’t played classic if you think it’s just logging in 1-2 times a week just to raid or you wouldn’t make such a flippant remark. If they really want to keep the m+ system they should but either remove the rewards system or imo…make it more like arena. The arena rewards system is perfect I feel. Only the best players get the best gear
Luckily, Blizzard is making Conquest Gear purchasable again. That takes out some RNG of step 1, but we still have WAAAAAYYYYY too much RNG
- RNG to get a piece of gear that you need to upgrade (Proper Slot)
- RNG to have the stats actually make the gear count as an upgrade.
- RNG to socket or add secondary stats.
- RNG to Corrupt the Item.
- RNG to Corrupt to a feasible level (Ranks 1-3 on some essences)
- RNG to Corrupt with the Corruption you actually need.
Thankfully, 3 steps are being removed come Shadowlands. Corruption Effects are fun, but poorly balanced.
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Would be awesome if i could take that random rolled corrupted item and disassemble it with my tailoring and use the materials to create the gear I need…imagine professions being useful and evolving through the patches. Corrupted tailoring path etc.
That would kill M+ interest overnight for 99% of the population currently playing it, including myself and I’ve played it heavily across many characters since early legion.
Challenge without proportional rewards is pointless. Last time I checked this was still an RPG.
Somewhat agree here depending on what you mean. I believe the weekly chest should be removed and the gear scaling go all the way up to mythic raiding gear baseline at +20 timed. Since this gear is farmable blizz can put in some form of weekly cap for this highest quality of gear, and no I don’t mean the weekly chest.
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Well my personal belief is that rewards should be cosmetic. And that they should scale gear up with minor boosts based on ilvl rather than have it based on the gear your wearing. Cosmetic as in rare mounts you can only get doing it or…transmog. Like they had in challenge modes. Right now m+, especially through weekly chests which I do believe should be removed, is creating gear bloat and somewhat deincentivizing raiding or even to a high degree, competence. We do use systems like io to mitigate this somewhat but that can only go so far. Instead they could shift it to tiers and bet more on these tiers than they have. Right now completing a base mythic in everything gets u an achi, completing a 10 in everything another achi and completing a 15 in everything gets you an achi and an essence appearance. And that’s it…
Imagine instead if a 10 rewarded a title. A 15 rewarded a mount and a set of weapon skins. A 20 rewarded a full class specific set and a special set of mounts. A 25 rewarded even more cosmetic stuff. Yes it would be locked behind large walls but it would be something to aspire to.
Like in cms if they did gear scaling and set whatever gear was on to a base ilvl, they would make the dungeons a skill thing rather than the weird gear bloat farm it is right now. What do I mean by scaling gear? In cms in the past gear was scaled down to whatever the basic dungeon level gear at the time was. Meanwhile mobs in the same dungeons were scaled up to what would be the equivalent of mobs and bosses in 17-20s. Timers were tight but there were infinite resets so it was entirely possible to practice and set up paths. Not to mention scaling down created interesting and fun interactions with versions of raid content that came out after cms were released. When I say gear scaling for m+ I mean scale it upwards while scaling the mobs upwards as well. So say the base ilvl of your items in the respective dungeon goes up by 5 per dungeon. Any items above this ilvl would get scaled down and any below would scale upwards. This would remove the need to make m+ a gear farm as any gear needed to do them could be as basic as basic dungeon gear or even greens while optimized gear would likely be appropriately statted stuff with some possible raid trinkets and sets that suited the dungeon.
Forgive the long explanation and quite possibly rant but what this would do is it would bring relevance back to raiding and raid tiers. It would stop players from outgearing most raid content, would prevent some of the odder current pvp interactions that go on, while retaining and in fact giving actual incentive to the fun that is pushing key timers. Currently no real incentive exists to push past a 15. In fact you’d do one 15 and then could easily just do 14s to get 465 gear. The only reason people push higher is for the challenge and somewhat for epeen because if we’re being real that is part of the fun of the game: getting better and proving it. Cosmetic rewards would help separate the pretenders from the actually motivated much better than the current system does because there wouldn’t be any gear to hide behind. If they did the scaling right in fact you would be able to tell pretenders apart. But…that’s my rant. I know none of this will ever be implemented which is a shame because I truly believe this is what would make it work as a system.
Then we fundamentally disagree on what an RPG should be.
The vast majority of RPGs still follow the traditional formula of player power rewards directly tied to the challenge of a particular encounter. I know that powerful relatively free gear gets tossed around in BFA a lot (e.g. emissaries) but that does not justify throwing out the entire system.
Plenty of players do not care at all about cosmetic and vanity rewards. I am one of them. Don’t care about my quality or number of mounts as long as they get me from point A to point B quickly. DOn’t care about how my gear looks (unless its truly hideous), just what it grants me in power.
I came from a background of single player RPGs, each of which I would not have bothered playing if there was no player power progression curve based on increasing difficulty.
IMHO removing player power progression from content in WoW would completely destroy the game for most players, including those for who WoW was their first RPG. I would leave and never come back. We already saw the effect that PvP templates had on incentives for PvP gameplay. By the way Holinka was in charge of that idea and he’s in charge of the class development team now, so I’d recommend people be very paranoid.
I’m not saying to remove that though. I’d actually want raids to stay exactly the same as far as gear progression goes minus corruption. I’m just saying limit the sources of such gear. I’m saying to remove one of the easier sources of such gear. I wholeheartedly agree that emissary rewards and weekly chests and warfront rewards and such gear should be removed as to a degree…it’s empty content. It’s free stuff not really stuff that’s been earned. And I am advocating for rewarding players for the content they do. Just in a progressive model. The real thing most RPG players crave is some form of exclusivity or exclusive identity. Gear does lend itself to this and has for a long time. In this day and age though, cosmetics do this far better. CE mounts are a good example of this among other things even though a lot of people have and sell these too. A player’s look is a huge part of the RP part of an RPG. Having an exclusive look lends itself to this exclusivity. I actually do agree with the idea of scaling power rewards based on skill or ability…but such scaling hasn’t existed in WoW for awhile. It’s kind of what I was arguing against…maybe one way to mitigate this from dungeons would be to reward them sets similar to what pvpers get. Yes this is another weekly chest but this weekly chest would work differently. I have another post suggesting the creating of a PVE rating similar to a PVP rating or dungeon rating rather to determine the scaling of said chest. But as it stands the current system does not feel very rewarding to begin with. In fact the most rewarding part about completion in time is an additional mark to an artificial score made by a third party program unaffiliated to the game.
You’re kidding yourself if you think the people pushing score don’t care about gear, even if at it’s at a lower range of 16-19. A very low chance of an upgrade does not equate to someone not caring about gear upgrades.
As for “unaffiliated” there is nothing mysterious about this system. All the data it extracts is form the blizzard armory API, the same armory that shows the full history of your M+ seasonal runs. The score system is also obvious if you sit down and think about it for a couple of minutes.
I hope this comment is not about M+ because otherwise this is just another “raiding must be king, raid or die, nerf everything else” post. Small scale flexible challenging content is the future for the survival of WoW. As others have mentioned if you want raid or die then classic is there for you and sometime likely in the future TBC classic.
Forgive me for responding to you. It appears you aren’t going to bother to read the entirety of what I write but just take uncontexted sound bites out of it and take that as an entirety. If you want to continue with this farce of a…whatever it is feel free to. Quote something from here if you want. I won’t respond. You win. It’s what you wanted anyway. That and to disparage me. Congratulations. I shared my opinion. My opinion was clearly and unequivocally wrong. It was so clear from a few sentences that the other sentences are essentially meaningless drivel. I’ll go die as others have suggested (see I did it right there. It’s like I just ignored the other words or context that was there in the sentence you wrote and just picked words and used them as an entire context with an entirely different meeting than you expressed. Wow) Thank you so much for your wise words
Also I do believe you should check your reading comprehension. You kinda just ran with the interpretation of what I said that best suited your agenda without checking for the context. You are firmly convinced I’m wrong which is fine. This a game forum topic for a game so honestly who cares. Just for future topics that might have more pertinence it would be prudent to make sure that you are understanding what is being expressed so as to gain the most from it you can. Just helpful advice
If M+ rewards were purely cosmetic, it would basically change the format from an alternate (but slower) progression path available to everyone to a perk of raiding. Only raiders would have the gear to reach for any but the lowest rewards. Instead of bringing a wide swathe of players into the end-game, it would be content for a fraction of a tiny fraction of the player-base exclusively.
If Blizzard’s goal were to push as many people into raiding as possible, it might make sense, but I don’t think that’s what they’re trying to do, and it shouldn’t be.
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Unless you want to put the nail in the coffin that is retail WoW, no probably not.
So many of these complaints about M+ being viable come from raid–focused DPS-only players. Many of them do half-baked performances in raid and that’s fine because you have so many other DPS and players to cover for you. Conversely in M+ you are 20% of your party. You perform poorly and/or make a big mistake the result is plain for everyone to see. No one likes being labelled an idiot in front of everyone.
- “Doesn’t matter if I interrupt, someone else will cover for me in raid”
- “Doesn’t matter if I do good dps, someone else will cover for me in raid”
- “Doesn’t matter if I die early in this fight, the rest can pick up the slack”
etc.
If gear scales up or down in dungeons you don’t really need to raid at all other than to min max. It exists in the game already in the form of timewalking. Last I checked timewalking doesn’t require raiding or raid gear or any specific form of gearing at all to do.
Wholeheartedly agree that m+ does come down to having far more player responsibility. It’s not just about blowing your cds any time their up. It’s about when and how you blow them, it’s about specificity of knowledge of dungeon mechs and how your class plays around them and about versatility and creativity of how you form a group to deal with them. Versus raids where you are very much one in a crowd other than first encounters with mythic bosses.
This was why I mentioned reading comprehension at all. If you had read what I wrote and understood the context you’d have seen that I was agreeing with you. Agreeing with you so much in fact that I was suggesting a set of rewards beyond those that exist. This scaling system for gear was just one idea. The other one which you also ignored was implementation of a pve dungeon gear drop system similar to the existing one for pvp based off a rating. You chose instead to attack my knowledge of what io is without any real context to confirm whether or not I knew what it was. I had in fact made that comment about io (which is not affiliated with Blizzard last I checked. Affiliation means to be a subsidary of or be in the employ of. Raiderio rather uses the freely available data. Similar to addons we use like dbm or meter addons which are from third party developers or companies not developed by blizzard itself) because of how ineffective it is in group determination. It was the footer to the rest of a set of sentences supporting that assertion.
There really is more to those posts I made than sound bites. Consider reading and understanding them before trying to pigeon hole me for no reason other than that you find it easy to. Then again that kind of is exactly what the current system is about so carry on I suppose. As the system dictates I should go back to classic for bothering to say anything at all. (I will fully admit to not understanding how that makes sense. Is it because classic has tiered progression where you don’t redo dungeons once you’ve completed them? I’d assume so. If so it’s a poor argument because that is exactly how it is in current retail outside of mythic+. Unless people keep running mythic 0s every week that I haven’t heard about. As for people running continuous mythic+ to gear…that’s what the previous response of mine here that you didn’t read was about so maybe give it a read.