Rise of Azshara PTR - Initial Class Changes

(Elvenbane) #105

Any chance of giving Druids an interrupt prior to level 70/80? I understand that Solar Beam is strong (and maybe it needs to be changed to a baseline interrupt with a later level passive that changes it to what we know) but restricting Skull Bash till level 70 makes tanking the 40-70 dungeons way more of a nuisance than it should be, especially when most other specs get their interrupts prior to 40.

(Loriginale) #106

So, they could reduce the intellect to agility conversion. I’d make vortex a talent, not baseline for resto.

I do have one. Did couple 10’ on him. Don’t like the playstyle at all.

(Masoschism) #107

First, a spec can be doing fine in some aspect of the game and still feel incomplete, or be lacking in depth or choice. Second, there are many other aspects of the game than the one you feel out-competed on. For example, just because a class is doing fine in 3s Arena doesn’t mean it is doing fine in RBGs, much less M+ or raids, and they all matter to some large population.

This feeling of “lacking” is inevitable due to all the effort to make classes feel “special” (which is misguided and has failed miserably). Forcing classes to have a zero or be very weak in some category, for example; one of the damage categories (Cleave, small mob AoE, large mob AoE, or Single Target), or CC categories (AoE CC, interrupt, long term CC, etc.) when several other specs have most or all of those things just means when an encounter requires those things to be successful, the specs without can’t be successful. I’m all for strengths and weaknesses, but “weakness” doesn’t have to mean a zero.

On the contrary, everyone else needs to be brought up. Not necessarily in the same way, but there needs to be a concerted focus on the part of the design team to ensure that each spec has depth, complexity, and meaningful choice. Each spec also has to be functional in all aspects of the game, which in many cases means fewer zero’s, and more three’s (on a 10 point scale e.g.). Our chosen spec is our interface with the game. Giving each spec the tools they need, even if that tool is “weak” in comparison to some other spec should be the primary focus of the dev team.

They talk about designing for counterplay. I question whether a single person who thinks the current game with stripped down classes has counterplay ever played PvP in MoP. Now THAT expansion had counterplay, and no one had a zero in anything. Give us back our tools. Let us figure out counterplay, don’t try to force it on us. I promise it will happen.


So can we please address the state of dk dps. I just hate being forced to reroll or be just above tanks. I am fine with playing around breath and being punishing if you use at bad timings, but there needs to be a risk/ reward factor.

(Suishi) #109

Vengeance and Guardian buff should’ve been up before Rise of Azshara, you’ve admitted that they have problem back in Uldir, why would it took you 4 months from now to buff them anyway.

I can understand not nerfing MDI classes right now but buffing underperforming tanks earlier would not hinder anyone.

(Xathra) #110

I would agree with this put buffs up then if numbers don’t change commence with nerfs

(Xathra) #111

I would really love to know where you are getting these numbers.

There isn’t really a standard DTPS stat for a reason. Tanks deal with it differently. Warriors and Brews tend to rely on pure mitigation, DK and Pallys especially DKs use a lot of self healing. Veng and Guard are absolutely not top tier and need to be brought up to par so no point in looking at them atm.

Although I definitely have more self healing on my brew than warrior obviously since the only healing I have on warrior is when I do mega pulls and leech to hell and back which will be significantly nerfed by the proposed changes.


So many people complaining that their class didn’t receive anything. Are you ignoring the title or are you blind? These are initial class changes.

Also - the Guardian and Vengeance changes should be a hotfix not a patch months down the road.


hey this is great. The rogue / prot changes are probably necessary (I main prot war so a little disappointing but I understand). I think the MOST important part of this is that blizz is going the right direction - do not NERF over-performing classes, but instead BUFF under-performers. Would love for VDH and Guardian to be viable in M+ ! I think as developers, your goal should be an even distribution of classes in all content. The way to do this is not to nerf but instead buff. The game already feels extremely paired down after Legion, and buffing / adding abilities is a much better way of addressing this common complaint than nerfing over-performers.

(Brujanna) #114

Please implement these VDH and Guardian fixes before 8.2. If it is a problem as you acknowledge, then players deserve a solution sooner. If you’re holding back though because you’re iterating on it, that’s understandable. Anything more we can get on live now would be greatly appreciated.

Hey warrs, doing 2x or 3x the damage of other tanks isn’t a niche, it’s a ludicrous imbalance, and you know it. This is at most a 25% nerf on one ability that is extremely out of line. It will still be really good.

(Stulh) #115

“Working on making classes feel better” - Proceeds to make BM hunter MORE reliant on their burst phase with no overall dmg gain. Thanks I guess… this is PRIME EXAMPLE #1 of why this game feels worse and worse.

(Jape) #116

EHRPS is a decent measure.


Any plans to improve DPS Warriors’ utility in the coming future?

There were so many threads regarding numerical tuning/utility improvements for DPS warriors yet none were addressed or even acknowledged.


The nerfs to prot warrior are absolutely on point. Right now warrior has the highest mitigation out of all tanks with the highest damage output by far and one of the lowest skill caps. And I don’t know where you came with the idea that DK will take warrior’s place since DKs can’t tank sh@t above a 21. Sure Paladin might rise above Warrior but pally has probably the highest skill cap among all tanks and a lot of semi-good players will have trouble with it.


Any plans to address the size of health pools relative to damage in PvP? Players are dying very very slowly and its making PvP feel extremely slow & unexciting as a result.

It also puts classes/specs with great survivability on top at the expense of those who rely on burst to land kills.


Yeah, Blood DK’s are very squishy after unwarranted nerfs in 8.1. Those should be reverted, at least partially.


Thanks for that cancer post Liaka

(Svartalf) #122

I think the loss of moonfire castable in cat form will also be kind of a pain for quests out in the world.


His metrics for judging are completely useless because they don’t factor in the capability of self-healing tanks like Paladin/DK provide whereas Warrior has (I believe) the worst healing capabilities of any tank by a country mile, especially in a raid scenario where you rarely have any targets to proc Victory Rush off of (if you can even manage that, considering you need to last hit them). Assuming we somehow take 20-30% less than % mitigation tanks like PLD/DK/BM, particularly in magic-heavy fights (newsflash, we don’t), most can also heal like 60-75% of whatever they took in damage back up completely on their own accord.


A really nice change to help with magic mitigation would be to extend how long Spell Reflect lasts and not just have it get consumed when it manages to deflect one of the rare few spells it’s capable of doing? I would rather it reflected nothing at all and just lasted 8-10 seconds instead of a maximum of 5, and sometimes being consumed and taken away within like a second if a spell hits us.