Thanks for replying! What specifically is a looter to you? I’ve seen that word a lot today and my best guess is like Diablo, but I don’t know
I’m not really a fan of the timer thing, although if they tone it way down I think it will be fine.
My bigger issue is the way convenants are shaping out. Their design philosophy is that they are go to be so amazingly well designed that there isn’t going to be a strict meta employed by the community for performance reasons. That’s so grossly naive of a gaming developer I can’t even fathom it.
Level squish isn’t content.
^^^ this, Blizzard literally said there wouldnt be timers and are looking for suggestions to get a happy medium where people won’t feel rushed but won’t try to cheese the system either. If people could give clear co sise information rather than Karen-esque vitriol and passive aggressive digs,then maybe they can find something and get it tweaked and prepped for beta and perfected by launch.
I guarantee it won’t.
Think back a couple years to when we were at this point in BfA development and people were acting like allied races were the only thing in the expansion. Yeah, it’s a new thing and they’re pushing it to get people hyped up, and they have it up for testing longer because they’re not as confident with it as, say, 5-mans… but the game is still gonna have everything else it’s always had. The rest of the game isn’t going away just because it got a new feature.
It’s definitely not the only thing, but Torghast will absolutely be a central and essential feature of the expansion given it’s the only means of acquiring legendaries.
It’s control freak 101 Mudwhimping. Accolonn nailed this when he started to wonder how much control freak behavior the devs have at home, such as highly organized homes and behaviors.
Instead of free form play retail is do X + Y + Z in a specific order and time constraint. Some people really love this design and the rest of us hate it with a passion.
I sincerely hope the company plans to appeal to both parties with the branching of Classic which can be used as a model to make tiny adjustments to the affected retail products. Such as offering rep tabards from BC through BFA relaunch. A more dangerous and engaging group-orientated world for players looking for it.
I know their agenda is to bring both groups to retail but with this design team I don’t see that happening. We’re just too different.
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Holding BFA up as an example is not a glowing recommendation. My guild was running mythics on day 2 and lost over 40 people after their 30 days ran out.
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In fact, haven’t the devs been pretty clear in that Torghast is supposed to be something of a more beefy side activity? As in we’ll spend a fair amount of time there, but the bulk of the playtime will be spent elsewhere.
thats muh boy…keep talking. Stuff like that will keep me here playing the game 
I think I’m gonna start calling these people Doom Monkeys instead of Chicken Littles.
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That’s not how I see it. But we will see how roguelike it stays at launch and we will see who is more right. I hope I’m wrong but I, unfortunately, doubt I am.
Diablo/Torchlite/POE ect. Torment style type systems in general I equate to looters(since it pretty much started there). The difference between them, and even a game like Rogue Legacy, I think, shows how different in gameplay approach a looter and roguelikes are.
I like torchlite/POE and ect they are good games and fun design. But why release an entire new system with hooks from roguelikes and then put looter type mechanics in it. Even if other roguelikes do it(and there are many) that still doesnt make sense, to me, for Blizz to do that with this system since they already have a looter system with m+.
I think the more different Torghast is to mythic+ the better it will be, because it will give players a refresher compared to the rest of the game. I just thought having a salt and sanctuary type dungeon in WoW aesthetics would be really cool and a good break away from the norm.
I just fear this mix of a bit of looter mechanics points to that not being their objective. It’s less exciting.
A roguelike is figuring out the level design, in looters the motivation is getting to point a to b as soon as possible while maximizing rewards. I dont think its hard to point out when the looter aspect is showing up. Obviously there is a part of a reward aspect to Torghast but I dont look at that as a looter driven concept.
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Just git gud.
The impression I got was that it was like islands. If there are certain things you’re after you’re going to want to push Torghast a lot, but otherwise just dabbling in it is perfectly fine.
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Did I say it was? It’s a feature. Not content.
The new Leveling System is content though, as it is adding to and changing leveling
A video for your consideration, a video from a YouTube who has tested it.
As someone who has been playing with the Torments, I’ll tell you that besides the add summon ones being way overtuned on timing, I had no issues at all getting up and taking a break when I wanted to. I really only started to feel the affects on a higher floor start (19) with little Anima Powers to make the run easier. Even then, the run didn’t feel timed at all, but instead felt like I had to end due to dieing too many times to difficult encounters.
Torments do need some adjustments/revamp, but please don’t equate it to a timer in the top right of your screen.
We wanted a lich king 2, we got bfa. We wanted lich king 2, we got shadowlands. It looks terrible unless you like leveling or new hair colors. I wont be playing but I dont mind people who want those things.
He really didnt address anything I said though. He is fine with it but he made it pretty clear while he liked roguelikes he was fine with the limitation of the 18 floor concept, talking about balance in a roguelike.
Roguelikes are not balanced. One floor you can become a towering god, the next floor get blown up by one random mechanic you never saw before(in a floor you cleared easy your last playthrough). That’s fun… The unpredictableness of roguelikes is half the enjoyment and something diametrically different then anything else in WoW(which was why I was excited).
He is right though, 18 floors will be more balanced, but that isnt a good thing, imo. Even with his defense at the 6:20 mark, he clearly doesnt realize or care that if this system stays it will be designed around and the roguelike will become more of a mixture of a roguelike and your typical looter. That makes it a lot less interesting, imo.
He is saying it’s different then a hard counter but does a lousy job explaining why, imo. Sounded more like a defense. Which hey if you like it that’s fine I understand that, but just dont try and tell me it’s a roguelike, it has roguelike elements sure but it also has a looter elements so now we get to watch to see which one will win.
From what I read in their recent post about Torghast it looks like they want everyone to be comfortable running it and not feel rushed. Here read this if you haven’t:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-torghast-tower-of-the-damned/498548/129