It’s not a bug. It works exactly the way they coded it.
and it’s not like this is super unknown niche thing, people have used Righteous Fury Holy Paladins for a lot of cheesy things over the years.
Sure, bud.
Except the arguments that have been made proving otherwise, but sure.
Care to show the math on that? I’m willing to concede this point if you can prove it.
Bugs are the unintended results of the way they coded. Just because they coded it that way doesn’t mean it isn’t a bug.
It is confirmed to be a bug. It is, however, a bug that existed in vanilla, so it’s here to stay.
here let me extend an olive branch to you friend…
Symbol of Kings
Item Level 60
Max Stack: 100
Sell Price: 37
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=21177/symbol-of-kings
That’s how much it sells to a vendor, buddy.
Cost: 27s - 31s 76
Ok to clear things up.
When entering MC Paladin threat eclipses any other tank. Period bar non. Its a static value outside of weapon damage.
Additionally Prot Paladins have the ability to generate 95% of their threat regardless of position as long as mob has awareness…Think Geddon and Ony as examples. Ie hit with de aggro fireball…start casting Gbok and climb back up the threat list relative to other tanks because melee range is not required.
Prot Paladins especially early, with the short duration of fights can retain their tanking profile while making threat a non issue.
That exists until mid to late BWL.
At that point the gap widens between Warrior/Bear and Prot Paladin mitigation and avoidance values due to limited Palaidin gear choices.
However that doesn’t become a major issue until AQ40.
I hit a road block at Twin Emps and I came up empty after that 
Hopefully the Prot Paladin community will find an answer…and I will be very curious to when it comes.
Ok hear it goes.
A Warrior in even endgame gear, ie Naxx 40 will be ~10k ac, ~13.5k with buffs and Inspiration procs and over 40% pure avoidance.
Druids will have 17,265 AC…ie the cap for 75% mitigation, ~26%+ avoidance depending on gear/group layout and +500 to +600 Hps.
At that point Warriors will take slightly less damage.
Druids will have significantly greater threat.
Druids will suffer less overhealing.
Any other differences between the two will be based on encounter design mechanics…Ie Loath, Thaddius, Patchwerk etc.
However keep in mind, due to the nature of optimized DPS available in Classic compared to Vanilla, the information readily available, threat is a far more important issue than ever before.
All you have to do is look at all the threat threads available on these boards to arrive at that conclusion.
However your summation about the viability of Bear tanking is way off. There were very few of us raid tanking in vanilla. A great deal of misinformation was out there in how to gear, how to enchant, quest rewards, and gear selection.
As a result many early Bears made poor choices and many made the erroneous conclusion that Bears were inferior tanks.
Once armed with that knowledge Bears are amazing.
Both Warriors and Bears try to reach the near same conclusion from opposite sides of the spectrum.
Bears gear and enchant for +hit and +avoidance without relative concern to EH as long as they make informed choices.
Conversely Warriors do everything possible to boost EH…as they already have excellent avoidance due to +defense talents, and default gear choices.
The goal for both is the same.
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I will concede to much of what you’ve said here, but there’s one thing I do feel I should point out:
There is a point, even in Naxx, where warriors stop trying to increase their effective health at all. Fury Prot will become the dominant build again once you have even a handful of pieces of gear out of Naxx. Once you’re running Fury Prot, your TPS is so high that you would quite literally have just quit hitting buttons to lose threat. The build also boasts significantly higher raw damage output than any other tank build in the game.
Edit:
Okay, maybe two things to point out. Thunderfury is a significant contributor to protection warrior TPS. A prot warrior equipped with Thunderfury will inherently generate significantly more than one that isn’t – and, unless I’ve missed the mark, more than most bear druids as well.
what about a Prot PALADIN with Thunderfury 
#OHSNAP
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I would love to see a prot paladin with Thunderfury.
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Fury Prot is a great threat boost once you have the gear for it.
However even Fury Prot wasn’t sufficient, unless 2H tanking with it, if you had completely optimized DPS min/maxing their rumps off with it later on. Many Warrior threat abilities are Static in value, so not all Warrior threat scales with progression.
2H Fury/Prot became a thing because there was an actual need in high end guilds.
Remember Warrior and Lock damage scale amazingly well. Sadly however they don’t have squat in the way of aggro management tools.
As a result threat becomes an issue later in AQ40 even with Salvation present.
For most other classes its not an issue, but those two classes give tanks a headache if they are struggling with threat.
A Thunderfury Warrior will not out threat a bear by late AQ40. Its a great threat item that grants a nice boost when they get it. And they should pursue it by all means.
Maul is simply the best scaling TPS ability that exists.
Every point of Maul damage is modified by +262% for threat.
Additionally with talents and Idol of Brutality, Maul with a 25% crit rate is 5.75 rage…its super cheap. At 30% crit is 5.35 rage and so on.
MCP just gives us a means of rage dumping without using the horrible and lackluster Swipe. Swipe in instances if fine to help hold off some healing aggro while tabbing…but again its a low end static value. And FF is just crap for threat after 5 mans.
I mean seriously, 10 button clicks to get 1080 threat every minute…makes me very sad (
Righteous Fury has always acted this way, unless you somehow missed Paladins tanking by casting heals in low level dungeons. Yeah, the tooltip is wrong, but people whined and whined about #nochanges so things were re-implemented just the way they were, incorrect or otherwise confusing tooltips included.
I was wondering why I’d sometimes get aggro on untanked mobs when buffing randomly during dungeons (like after using a freedom or a BoP and wanting to re-apply Might/Light/Wisdom etc.)
Thanks for clearing that up and Godspeed.
Also, hey Theloras.
(Basecamp)
=]
and seal of the crusader states “increasing Holy damage taken by up to 140” yet the holy damage from retribution aura is completely unaffected by this.
I figured these were always unwritten rules rather than bugs?
As much as I want to see paladin tanks in classic this feels like a bug that blizz is going to fix if too many people catch on and really push it to exploit levels.
alas, the mechanic is working as intended according to Kevin Jordan - the only question is whether they allow gbok scaling with Righteous Fury to remain
…You are forgetting the rate at which you don’t do any damage. You probably don’t have any +hit gear and you can’t get weapon skill. So all in all that’s a 29.5% chance of doing nothing and losing all rage spent without a chance for Primal Fury activating. Against raid bosses 5% of any aura type crit is nullified. This means your crit % is actually 20%. Should I even mention that it is just impossible for you to even use maul every attack let alone swipe? Faerie fire is resistible. Should I mention your math with swipe is ridiculously off?
Such a misguided attempt at deception or ignorance, one of the two. Congrats thinking that paladin threat would only be coming from buffing. Obviously can’t be using a sword or generating threat on blocking right?
This happens naturally as people take anyone to fill raid slots. Are you really going to say that 10 warriors or 10 mages are detrimental to the success of a raid?
And? The amount of time it takes to farm the pittance to afford symbols, is a lot less than the average time needed for you to farm your MCP’s.
So you can do like 3 casts. Hurray for you for generating 10’s of thousands of threat with 3 casts.
And before you mention that I didn’t mention taunts, it’s because it is a worthless argument and you know it. You don’t need to taunt on most bosses that can be taunted. Even then, would you really rely on an ability that has a high chance of failing several times in a row unless you out gear the content and force your dps to make up the difference? Even if your raid wants to rely on taunt, mechanically speaking a paladin can still tank all but 2 tauntable bosses. You’ll also be hard put to find anyone here seriously saying that paladin is BiS. So again, why are you trolling here again?
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I don’t have a problem with your post, just the way you phrased the modifier. Maul would do 262% of damage done as threat. Or it does 162% more threat per point of damage. You just kind of mixed both together and gives the impression that maul would do 362% of damage as threat.
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Eh really don’t know why you have to say it’s OP like it’s easy to tank as a paladin. Paladins have no taunt you know.
Excitement leads to a little exaggeration. And unless one is a specific troll that has been trolling this thread, then no one actually believes it’s actually OP as it does have its downsides.
BiS threat gear has 7% hit, actually. But sure, you can reduce it to account for misses.
Account for all that if you want. I have a pathetic 3% Hit at the moment from my Devilsaur set and my Onyxia Tooth Pendant. No Band of Accuria or Truestrike Shoulders yet.
600 * .735 = 441
435 * 1.2 = 529
522 / 1.67 = 317
317 * 1.75 * 1.495 = 829
120 * .725 = 87
87 * 1.2 = 104
104 * 1.75 * 1.495 = 272
18 * .83 = 15
You’re right. I missed a few steps because I was doing napkin (forum) math rather than actually doing any of these calculations properly. Forgot to actually do the TPS math and was just doing the math for the actual threat each Swipe deals.
In the four global cooldowns, I cast Swipe in three of them. The threat generated from each swipe multiplied by three, divided by the total cycle time.
272 * 3 = 816
816 / 6 = 136
So, corrected math (and feel free to point out other mistakes if you see them).
829 + 136 + 15 = 980 TPS.
Definitely not double as I originally calculated incorrectly, but this is before buffs and not in BiS gear. It also only gets better as the game progresses, mind you. The Paladin’s primary threat generation (the buffing) does not improve with gear or buffs, save for how long it can be done.
Oh, it absolutely is possible. When wearing threat gear, I take enough damage to be capped on rage unless I Swipe frequently. I weave in Faerie Fire because my rage generation isn’t quite high enough to do it every GCD without starving myself of rage and not having enough for Maul.
This is especially true when I have raid buffs, world buffs, and consumables.
Actually, no, you can’t.
Test it for yourself if you want, but if you’re casting buffs every GCD, you won’t be auto attacking. Perhaps this works differently for certain spells, but for me, casting seems to delay (reset?) my auto attack swing. Here is proof:
https://gyazo.com/3d7ffe37d9733f7e47b728ec64741e38
You’ll generate the extra threat from blocking, at least. Admittedly, I don’t know the exact math on that. Feel free to calculate it if you’d like.
My guild leans towards the min/maxing side of things, and even we don’t stack that many of a class.
That said, no, I don’t think stacking 10 Warriors, Rogues, or Mages would be detrimental to the success of a raid. Quite likely, it would improve their success. That said, I think most guilds that would stack that many of a class probably wouldn’t be the types to bring a Prot Paladin.
Eh.
I only need one MCP for Onyxia due to how quickly she dies. That takes me a few minutes, at most, the majority of which is just spent going to Gnomeragan. Afterwards, I just vendor the thing for 95s. I actually gain money using my “consumables.”
Yes, actually dealing damage to her as opposed to just buffing repeatedly.
Eh. I don’t need Blessing of Protection, nor do I really rely on it, but it’s still a plus for Paladins.
Yet the majority of arguments presented in this thread have been arguing the superiority of Paladins in various regards.
The comment that sparked the post you’re replying to was actually from you saying that Paladins are better than Druids in reply to someone saying Druids are better tanks than Warriors.
You were arguing that Paladins were “BiS.”
Cute, but discussing things is not trolling.
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