Righteous Fury Mechanics == OP Paladin Threat (1k+ TPS)

It is only possible because of a bug, though.

If its already been said that it wont change for all of classic, and we are playing classic. What does the fact that it wasn’t intended change? This is like saying getting feared through a wall is a bug, a bug that lasted to what Wrath?

Back to my point, of what are you arguing for? It literally is everything I have said.

You dont need to gear for Hit/Crit/Threat as a paladin at all to tank with this method. All things that make Druid and Warrior weaker in one respect or another. You want to talk about how much damage a tank does an why it matters. Paladins are able via class stacking to generate more reliable threat sooner ( at range) without making the raid wait at any point. Even if that saves 1 to 2 GCD for all of the DPS, you tell me how a tank makes that damage up over the course of a 2 to 3 min fight.

Before I hear this, paladins are loathed for needing every stat in the world to play ret or prot/, and now that they literally need* nothing on their gear to generate threat I really would like to see how any of you spin this in a negative light.

Yes the class has massive flaws. No body here is arguing that paladins suddenly became perfect.

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This is the heart of the matter.

The whole game has massive deficiencies yet some love it because of them while others love it in spite of them.

We can math this out until our eyes bleed but it won’t change the fact that someone who loves Prot pally is going to do a better job tanking than someone who didn’t want to tank in the first place but was forced into a respec just to satisfy an unnecessary meta.

You aren’t only hitting Sunder, especially if you’re talented for high threat. Warriors do a solid amount of DPS while Tanking.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t a bug, and the consequent holding of aggro due to its use isn’t any less buggy.

That is a bug, yes.

Even if Druids or Warriors gear entirely for mitigation in the same way a Paladin can do with this method, we would be doing more DPS.

The only benefit is that you can generate similar amounts of threat without having to gear for it, which is not nearly as valuable if your tanks are not struggling to stay alive in the first place.

The raid doesn’t have to wait at any point with a Druid or Warrior, either.

We’re not spinning this in a negative light. It is the other shortcomings that this bug does not allow them to overcome.

What does this bug change for Prot Paladins? Now they can hold aggro. Okay, that’s good. That wasn’t the only problem Prot Paladin had.

No one can force you to respec.

In any case, a Warrior who was “forced” to respec to tank would still probably be better than a passionate Prot Paladin, solely because Prot Paladin just isn’t as good.

Prot pally is good enough and the bug won’t get fixed so both of your points are non-issues.

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"Righteous Fury grants additional threat on all holy abilities, not just attacks."

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Oh, I thought it was w/o toughness as the set I would go for gives 7535 armor w/o toughness or agility. With buffs it sits at an easy 15500 since inspiration multiplies all armor apparently.

I never once said a druid couldn’t use stoneshield potions and even assumed the druid was at the armor cap of 75% reduction regardless. As for the 13,812 armor, it’s a soft cap for a reason.

Maybe I should have chosen MC + Dire Maul… The mitigation would be similar there too with the revelation that inspiration affects all armor. As for health, yeah even warriors can’t touch druid health levels except with a cool down.

Styleen’s and Dragonslayer’s medallion are the only ones that there should be any real competition for and the second one is a guaranteed drop. What is this other gear that a guild wouldn’t give to a tank that they chose to have? Sorry, I forgot the Elementium cloak.

So technically, with the 70% pushback resistance talent and concentration aura, I can just spam heals on myself and keep aggro? That’s going to be an interesting playstyle, especially if it saves healer mana.

And yet from my experience our raid structure didn’t change at all.

People still used consumables, people were still in optimal PvE specs, we didn’t use subpar strategies, etc.

So yes Paladins can be utilized to tank without issue without it affecting the rest of the raid…contrary to your argument, which is a generalized messy statement on human behavioral thinking more than an actual point.

Yes Paladins mitigation/avoidance is fine. If DW/2H Warriors are tanking content and that’s considered acceptable from a healer/tank relationship standpoint…then Paladins tank just fine.

Paladin threat is fine until AQ40. Alliance has Salvation. Auto Attack + SoW threat, + Rank 1 HS, Blessing of Sanctuary + Blessing threat is more than plentiful until that point. Paladins don’t generate TPS exclusively from Blessings.

The threat doesn’t scale in any meaningful way, but until that point its fine.

Your assuming that any utility that a Prot Paladin brings is overwhelmingly offset by pure DPS variance between tanks.

I find that amusing when DPS raid values are insanely high come mid AQ40…ie 1000+ DPS…but at best a Bear can only manage 500 DPS measured against those same values while occupying a single raid slot.

Your talking about losing 1s for every minute of combat.

That’s not mediocrity, that’s elitist nitpicking and condescension.

Do I have to remind you this is a game Fasciae?

People can still progress without your version of right or wrong.
People can still defeat content on their own terms and not yours.
A raid force can still be effective without your raid parameters in place.

And most importantly people can play a game to have fun, forge relationships, and advance their characters in a different way than you do.

As someone who has always been a min/maxer, because that’s just the way my mind works, I also count cards while drunk whether I want to or not :stuck_out_tongue:, I still have to accept that my way isn’t the only way.

But the sheer arrogance of assuming that one perspective is right, and any other effective approach is wrong because you don’t agree with it is sheer hubris.

This never started as an argument, this started as a friendly post about a Paladin accomplishment, that allowed players to experience a playstyle that most had thought had been denied them.

However when you turn that into an argument, that says more about YOU than it does about mechanics or perspective.

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no you don’t want to do that - paladin healing threat was specifically nerfed by blizzard in early vanilla as a result

what you want to do is spam Greater Blessing of Kings because it does huge threat to all enemy targets every 1.5 seconds in a raid setting:

number of class x level 60 x imp RF 1.9

I didn’t know that. I thought you could almost play like a blood DK.

Ya, all the Paladin Tanks on the Horde side…us warriors are worried.

Paladin healing was nerfed to half that of another healer to prevent heal tanking with channeling talents + Concentration Aura.

For Holy Paladins it was a big boost.

It also allows Ret Paladins in 5 mans to throw the first HL on the pull without much risk to reduce threat moving to the healer.

Its a handy use of DF+HL for a 21/0/30 Ret raid build.

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courtesy of some nub named Askalon…

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530489505057341440/640307487492276224/Greater_Blessing_of_Kings_Threat_Generation.png

So a single Maul landing for 600 (so non-crit), is ~1522 threat, or the equivalent of 13 people getting buffed with RF on…

Heh…

every gcd ;p

I raise you parry
check + mate

I should add, only holy light, flash of light, and holy shock have this extra aggro reduction. SoL/JoL and LoH do not (big difference, I know)

Also, if you aren’t in combat, your first heal on someone in combat doesn’t give any threat. So don’t waste that on renew or rejuv and drop a big one haha

You sound like Niles and Fraiser from that episode when they were like 10

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Yep.

Mob just needs awareness of the Paladin.

So Judgement then DF+HL.

Allows the tank to generate adequate aggro without more aggressive heal competition and saves the healer mana as well.

We do what we do BECAUSE it’s hard. If it were easy there’d be no challenge. No one would ever solo level a rogue or mage.