It does plenty of damage, but it has the game feel of a single-target filler ability, not a big AoE spender. It’s not super easy to get a feel for it’s area of effect, given the lack of visual, and the character animation looks like an auto-attack.
I think they could improve on this without much effort.
damn i agree here.
the new animations are clean and crisp when you look up close.
but they get lost when you are tanking a dungeon with a lot of mobs up on you
thunder clap has a really nice sound effect, and i like the stomp. but the ground break texture it leaves on the ground is barely visible and easily gets lost. compared to a DH sigil looks very weak in comparison.
last stand / rally cry all the warrior does is let out a little shout, the same one he does for ignore pain and every other ability. no visual effect to our major defensive’s. makes it hard for people around you to tell when you have used a CD, compared to meta, AMS, druid wall or regen. all have a nice visual to accompany
could really go on with a lot more prot abilities…
not a satisfying class to press buttons on…
I feel the same way but I’m not really sure what they can do about it. A lot of cone attacks like this just aren’t very satisfying (looking at you, Swipe).
At least we’ve got Shield Slam, which sounds amazing.
Revenge could have the old cleave effect. Big green slash through the air.
Or even “glyph of cleave” to create that effect.
It only does o.k. damage when talented and cleaving multiple targets, but it’s very weak on a single target.
Shield of the Righteous is a cone with a killer sound effect, and with the legendary it has a great holy splash effect.
What I don’t like is that I have no idea where the cone is or how many enemies my revenge is hitting
Give us a cool effect or something that lets us know.
Aren’t most short-ranged conal attacks fairly standardized at ~140 degrees? Simply attacking into a dense line of enemies with floating combat text works fine for identifying it, but I’ve yet to miss an enemy with Revenge I expected to hit.
On the broader topic:
That’s probably because it’s not a big AoE spender. It’s a fairly low-cost filler.
One’s a frequent rotational skill, and the other’s a CD (even if also attachable to Infernal Strike).
And you can’t layer increasingly stark animations upon each other infinitely and have them all become that much easier to see; the Thunderclap visual through everything else going off just means so many other skills and effects like Flame Patch, Blizzard, Wild Spirits, and Earthquake being thus hidden.
Ideally, what you’d want are finer controls for one’s own versus other effects, but with other effects squelched, I don’t see how it’s difficult to see Thunder Clap’s ground effect so long as one can actually see the ground…
Can’t say that was my experience when I was first learning the spec.
I had played prot pally a lot, but with the legendary that gives shield of the righteous a holy-light splash visual effect and increases it’s range to up to 30 yds.
So moving to Warrior and only having floating combat text to go by felt pretty bad and made me wish I had a weakaura or something to tell me how many targets revenge would hit.
And yet with Reprisal and Best serves cold it deals nearly 20% of my overall damage in a dungeon, similar to the output of Paladin’s shield of the righteous and Brewmaster monk’s keg smash.
While Revenge isn’t as core to the rotation as those abilities (in terms of mitigation) it is indeed a big AoE damage ability.
Also I personally think Thunderclap is flashy as hell and feels super chunky, despite it’s mediocre damage output. The sound effect is excellent, and the animation is immediate and impactful.
Meanwhile Revenge’s sound effect and animation almost blend into the auto-attacks.
I think they could fix the problem really easily by improving the sound effect and making the “cleave” visual effect more dramatic.
Maybe its just me, but I prefer the warrior abilities to seem less magical.
This isnt to say that a talented effects team couldnt make obvious, heavy non-whimsical effects. Its just that revenge and thunderclap probably arent the best candidates for that.
However, butchery has a satisfying effect that could serve as a decent model for a revenge effect. And something like mongoose bite, with ramping animations and sound effects that feels super heavy on a 5 stack could also serve as a model. But part of what makes mongoose good is that its effect suitably matches the ramping damage of the ability. Part of what makes butchery good is that the effect matches the 360* area of effect. Cones and fillers are kind of boring. And thats ok.
It is for me. I hit 28k dps on a post-pride pull in Mists yesterday, and hit 20k pretty regularly. Roughly every other pull I am top dps, often by a wide margin (not always – I cannot compete with good fire mages, for example). That’s almost all revenge spam. Granted, it’s pretty weak on bosses, but we can’t have everything…
I love what they have done with revenge this xpac. If I had to rely on Thunderclap for aggro, I would go back to picking flowers in classic.
You say “big”, but then describe it as being pervasive.
This is another example of our likely disconnect in terminology.
Revenge is a hugely important ability. It makes up a big portion of your damage. It makes up a big portion of your spending. But at no point does it spend a big chunk at once. That’s what I mean by a big spender. It’s no Barrage (in the few iterations it was worth taking). It’s no Starfall. It’s no Justicar’s Vengeance (assuming it were ever worth using). It’s no Glacial Spike. It’s just a very prominent offensive filler skill for damn near every Prot in M+ (who almost all take Devastator).
With Seismic, 5k overall was damn near the minimum I’d put out in keys where I could pull big. Even now I sometimes consider swapping back off Reprisal for it. And, yeah, on Fortified weeks roughly half that overall damage would be Revenge. It’s huge. It’s a spender. I just don’t think of it as a “big spender”.
This is where we differ.
I acknowledge that what I am doing is not the meta and, while it works fine tanking at the +15 level, I cannot speak to higher keys. I imagine that the better defensive benefits of reprisal become necessary as you approach +20. But then, most people are not doing keys that high. I haven’t tried reprisal since I don’t do Torghast anymore and don’t have any soul ash. Also, I would hate to give up the revenge spam.
But my point is that, contrary to the original post, I find revenge to be very satisfying. I suppose the animation could be made better, but it’s still nice to see all the yellow numbers pop up. Also, while no individual cast is a “big spend”, I do think of it as a big spender since I am dumping pretty much all my rage into revenge for about 10 - 12 seconds. Obviously I need to be swimming in rage to do that, and I need to use a defensive CD. The idea is to combine ancient aftershock + avatar + ravager + last stand w/bolster, then spend big on revenge. Sometimes I will leave out last stand since its CD is longer than the others. In that case, I would just spend some rage on shield block or ignore pain.
This is not an ideal case but my last key was a +12 Necrotic Wake. It’s a bit low, and the mobs tend to leap out of the frontal cone a lot – which is similar to one of the issues people are describing in this thread - but here are some screen shots of what I am talking about. Note that all of these are individual packs, I am not “pulling big”.
First pull, G1, 4 mobs
Fourth pull, G5, 5 mobs
First major pull after Blightbone, G12, 5 mobs
Meter for the Blightbone trash (revenge is 44% of overall damage)
A cheeky prideful pull, G22, 8 mobs
Before Stitchflesh, G30, 4 mobs. The group really blew up this pack and I ended up 3rd on the meter.
The other corner, G31, 5 mobs.
In only one of those pulls did I have the prideful buff. I am sure that people can put up better numbers than this, but my point is that I find revenge to be a very satisfying ability. Actually I was kind of disappointed in this run – it was a pug and we had some awkward pulls. Also, I do consider revenge to be a big spender in the sense that, during the cooldown window, I am dumping almost all my rage into that one ability. I certainly would not consider revenge to be a filler ability. A rage dump, yes, but outside of these cooldown windows I have to be careful about spending rage on anything other than shield block and ignore pain.
One last point: I certainly hope Blizzard agrees that revenge is not satisfying – buff it more!
How is this even contestable? It’s objectively the smallest spender Warrior has outside of Hamstring. It’s not meant to be some AoE nuke as the OP is describing. It’s just a bonus damage filler, at minimal cost per GCD.
Reprisal gives more available Revenge casts, just as the Wall does via its increased Rage generation (but amounting to far more off its additional 100 Rage and 5 free Revenge! casts per minute). It’s no +70% Revenge damage against 3+ targets, but it, too, leverages Best Served Cold damn well.
If this is aimed at me at all, I’ve never argued against that. I, too, will very often end a pull at over 15k, and tend towards over 5k overall, almost entirely on the back of Revenge.
Idk why the discussion has turned into interrogating my specific choice of terminology, when all I really mean to convey is that revenge is a core-rotational AoE ability that produces a large amount of damage similar to Shield of the Righteous and Keg Smash (which I explicitly stated in my very first response to you), and that its game feel is pretty bad compared to those.
I would love to see revenge reverted back to a single target ability that cannot be dodged, parried or blocked. We need another single target dmg ability other then SS
Imo let’s go back to cleave, thunder clap and maybe whirlwind as our primary aoe. Furthermore give bladestorm back to prot baseline.
Hard disagree with OP. Revenge is a huge frontal swipe, and it feels way better then pressing thunderclap this expac. Revenge is our highest dps ability, generates outrageous threat, and totally fits into the prot warrior theme of cleaving everything down infront of you.
If they wanted to make it better, it would be cool if when it procc’d you could chose between a free AOE swipe (like it currently is) or a single target ability that does more dps.
Prot warriors need more single target, this could make the spec a lot more engaging.
And I simply disagreed with that.
Personally, I don’t find its game feel poor compared to those, nor do I particularly find it all that similar to SotR or Keg Smash in terms of playflow.
Y’all realize this is a silly argument right? You’re trying to convince someone they’re wrong based on how they “feel” about an ability being impactful to them. They can’t be wrong on how they feel any more than you can’t be right. It’s an opinion on how revenge feels to them, and isn’t relevant to it’s performance one bit.
In short, quit being wankers.
