Voted for season 1 but I’m changing it to season 3 looks like.
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For PvE S1 tier set is legit brain dead but S2 is a par-boiled vegetable.
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You don’t seem to understand that s2 tier is a 5% overal again it would have to be buffed by 200% to be competitive and it’s not a flat x3 modifier to everything btw it would have to be selective and buff specific things by specific %S to make sure it doesn’t interact with things. For example the crit dam modifier for how and judgement? That stays the same so it doesn’t shoot augury to the moon.
This isn’t a realistic hope at all
we already went over this yesterday…its not
pvp: S2>S1>S3
pve:S3>S1>S2
we are quite legit on opposite sides but the difference is if they are all tuned equally like blizzard said they would be?
pvp:S2>S1>S3
pve: S2=S1=S3
^thats the difference, the S2 is still the best for pvp regardless of the tuning.
There’s your issue. That is not going to happen.
your pick is lack of faith in blizzard to fix numbers for pve, my pick is mechanical changes that are guaranteed to change in we get S2 tier. If they came out today or tomorrow with a view of every tier set and how they are tuned and it showed them all equal none of you pvers would give a care in the world about S3 tier.
Nah, my pick is the one that plays and is objectively (read: mathmatically) better. Troll on.
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How does a tier set that does even less damage help ret in pve?
It’s worse in ST and would be catastrophic in m+ where ret is actually pretty good.
your running on 1 brain cell and a battery huh
they cant tune them to be equal, s2 is as non existant in m+ as s3 is in pvp
the sole difference: s3 can be tuned in a way to be ok in pvp, just remove the -% modifier
s2 4 piece would need a rework to be competitive with s3
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Oh man, are you serious? Blizzard not only has a proven track record of not being able to balance at all. Ret also gets what until proven otherwise the least amount of buffs ever, to the MOST amount of nerfs in PVP. I definitely could be wrong but I would put money on it.
Hoping Blizzard will balance correctly is literally insane.
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If everyone compromised on S1 that would’ve been a good middle ground but if I have to pick between pve and pvp I’m picking pve. It’s the larger slice of the game. I don’t even like s3 that much but s2 will gimp the spec.
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This guy taking PvP dummy numbers thinking they have anything to do with real arena numbers 
Again, you know absolutely nothing about arena, and we got the proof here.
- PvP dummies have no vers and no armor. Your numbers on PvP dummies are completely irrelevant.
- Most Rets play Crusade and FV in arena. You get WAY, WAY MORE than 6 HoW casts per Crusade window. They also play Aura of Reckoning, tier becomes insanely relevant on wings procs then. Especially against casters.
- The judgment debuff is EXTREMELY relevant in PvP. It’s a huge part of your damage. Saying it’s negligible is just wild. If it’s negligible, why does every Ret play Highlord’s Judgment?
Raw numbers aren’t the only thing that matters. When you face double caster and you spend the entire game running at them, then tell me what the value of HoW is.
No one said the S2 set was AMAZING in PvP, but it was really good and a game changer for the spec. Yes, Ret has more pressing issues in PvP. But tier was much more helpful than you think last season. You wouldn’t know by queuing at 1800 rating, though. Just sit this one out and stick to PvE.
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voicing again that this problem would be solved if there were either separate voting for PVP and PVE or just let us choose from all sets. Choosing from all sets would actually be ideal and would make season 4 more fun.
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I can’t believe people want this dog water playstyle of season 3 over the hammer gameplay of season 2.
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Armor does nothing to holy damage, vers decreases the damage making it even worse?
Wow you really make that sound like a lot, too bad it’s only 2-4, which certainly is more but not WAY WAY MORE 
Each Reckoning proc maybe get 1-2 extra over just normal AW, if even that.
Talking about the bonus from the S2 set, which is basically nothing.
Delusional.
the dog water playstyle of “just play like you always played” in season 3 versus the passive cleaving of a button you dont press in aoe
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All of the % modifiers are irrelevant to any discussion as they WILL be modified, we do not know how just that they will. I haven’t seen one person in here consider that S3 % could actually be nerfed in tuning.
As for effects:
-S1: flat % damage to builders and spenders - no rotational effect.
-S2: HoW applies judgement, and built in AoE on HoW. Judge and HoW % damage and crit damage, and judge and HoW increase spender damage. Priority of HoW, judge, and spenders. Rotational simple and no real downsides.
-S3: Expurgation duration and % damage, AoE when judge hits Expurg, % damage to next spender after judge hits Expurg. Rotation requires blade of justice before judgement. Downside is that if a fight requires target switching to new or priority targets you have to ensure you are holding a charge of blade of justice.
Comparing priority burst of adds/player/new target w/e, assuming some pooled Holy power, is (S3) blade>judgement>spender vs judgement or HoW > spender. In both M+ and pvp the difference of a global and held charge of blade can make a huge difference in how long a priority target lives.
Personally I like both S3 and S2 set bonuses, but if I have to choose which one I would like for S4, I will choose S2 over S3 purely on effects/rotation, since tuning is completely in the air for all 3.
Yes, I’m sure having 30% more haste for 30 seconds means 2 more HoWs. Again, you wouldn’t know as you don’t do any significant PvP. Which is why I suggested you sit this one out.
It was extremely significant in PvP. This isn’t an opinion or up for debate, it just was. A big reason for Ret’s success in season 2. Any high rated Ret would tell you!
Why aren’t you using it in aoe scenarios? Have you never had a pack live past your first burst?
Hammer is and always has been a great way to get more holy power to spend.