I would like to hear some of your ideas when it comes to ret in 10.0
So many specs hace a defined fantasy when it comes to their play style and a theme to their gameplay. Rest honestly feels directionless and this comes from someone who has played it for over 10 years.
Should we keep holy power? does it feel like just a less indepth system from rogues and ferals? should divine storm stay as a single atatck spoell or as an aoe aura around us that actually rotates the hammers? do we need a lot of abilities reworked or the whole idea of what ret is reworked?
Im not the only one that feels like we just dont have a place in most scenarios, our auras are brought by holy and prot with more tools for the party than we have and our damage is neither consistent nor high enough to comapare to others a lot of the time when youre playing with similar skilled players, our defensives are not better than a lot of other classes and our mobility is pitiful in most scenarios.
How does everyone feel, would you like a rework, would you like a rethinking of the abilities or do you like it as it is?
Any gap closer, they had Turalyon’s might on the files for Legion which was an ability like Tyreal’s 1 in Heroes, where you drop a sword on the ground dealing dmg and re activating to teleport to it.
Anything is better than the horse, it might look cool but its not good and doesnt feel good to use most of the time.
I would also like if we went back to Divine storm being a core part of our dmg even on single, like in Wrath when it had a cool down but it hit pretty dam hard, id prefer that over having TV in general.
If you look at any paladin npc any at all you will see them basically do a heroic leap to their target. And they are just common paladins so us(player paladins) which are High Lords can’t figure out how to leap? Yea that is as bad as this whole fu**ing expansion.
Also while I do not want it for ret spec I would like to see dw dps come to paladins
-Nerf wings and spenders.
-Buff generators and bring back seal of truth.
-Reduce RNG procs with stacks of a spell – having two charges of BoJ would give flexibility when you proc a free one.
-AoE HP generator
I like this, altho RNG isnt always bad, WoD’s ret was RNG heavy but it was well balanced and it had multiple procs as to not feel bad when you didnt get one cause you got another
Any kind of Utility that would make us stand out from Prot /Holy and other Melee dps.
Give everyone a reason to choose a Ret PLEASE.
Passive healing as we dps to the group? Passive threat reduction group wide? Increase damage by X% on targets we are focusing with our group? Make this damage go up if our wings is up?
I want the same kind of hype as to why you’d want a Enhance Shaman.
I don’t want a total rework. I want changes within the systems we already have, starting with auras:
Bring back Heart of the Crusader so we that we only need to swap to Crusader Aura when in a group. Then make both of these multiplicative (240% ground mount speed) rather than additive (220% ground mount speed).
Ret Aura should go back to being a passive because it doesn’t fulfill the fantasy of a paladin aura: to inspire allies. Perhaps reduce the duration to 8 sec to make it more of a perk.
Add 30% fear reduction to Conc Aura to make it more useful.
You can try adding a new aura to entice groups to bring a second paladin, but what other class has that luxury? I think three auras is fine - keep this largely passive system simple and neat, and find a better avenue to make Ret viable in mythic+.
Okay, so that covers auras. Rotationally, I would like to see…
Blade of Justice replaces Crusader Strike when you choose Ret at level 10 (like HotR for Prot).
Art of War adds a charge to Blade of Justice instead of resetting the cooldown (I stole this idea from Bolas, who stole it from Shadow Priests).
Exorcism makes a comeback somehow, perhaps as a talent that replaces BoJ? In any case, it always crits against demons, undead, and aberrations.
Hammer of Wrath can be used whenever. It deals 30% additional damage during Wings, and another 30% additional damage against low-health targets. Yea, it might actually feel wrathful again…but if this is too much damage, change one to generate an additional holy power instead.
I’m sure more can be said about our rotation, but I’ll leave it at this: I think holy power generators should be improved, but not to such an extent that our finishers need to be gutted.
In regard to talents…
Righteous Verdict should be replaced with something in between Zeal and Execution Sentence: not totally passive, but not an active ability either.
Repentance with a cast-time has never fit the class very well. For Holy and Prot, I would stick Hand of Hindrance here. For Ret, I would keep Repent, but make it instant with a 20 yd range, 5 sec duration, and 1 min CD. It would last 1 min in PvE and allow your group to walk by the mob safely without it aggroing to you later, like how Sap and Imprison work.
Replace Eye for an Eye with something less situational: a bigger Shield of Vengeance (fits the name well).
While Holy Avenger is active (in addition to its current effects) your finishers can consume 4-5 holy power for greater damage and healing.
Selfless Healer isn’t bad, but it tends to be overshadowed by Healing Hands. I would buff it to require 3 stacks to be instant, heal for 30% more, and cost 30% less. Additionally, after landing a killing blow your next Flash of Light will critically heal.
Justicar’s Vengeance has been a dead talent for two expansions. I like certain aspects of it, but now that we have WoG back I don’t think JV is worth trying to salvage. Replace it with some sort of utility - doesn’t even need to be of the healing variety.
Add some healing per stack to Crusade. Why is this talent a downgrade in terms of healing? Very strange.
And PvP talents…
Baseline Blessing of Sanctuary (for Ret only, of course) because it would be cool to have outside of arena. It’s never really worth taking in battlegrounds even though I’d love to use it there, while in PvE I find it fun to have situational abilities that you only use once in a while - makes it feel special when you do.
Divine Punisher and Lawbringer combined so that the first Judgment applies Lawbringer, and then if you use Judgment on that target a second time it generates additional holy power and consumes the debuff. But if you use Judgment on a different target, it deals damage to targets that have Lawbringer on them.
Baseline this: when Hand of Hindrance is removed early, its cooldown is reduced by 10 sec (nerfed from 15). Then combine Law and Order and Jurisdiction to create one talent that a) causes Blade of Justice to apply Hand of Hindrance to the target for 3 sec, and b) increases Hammer of Justice range by 10 yds.
Go back to the drawing board with Judgments of the Pure and Ultimate Retribution.
Other baseline stuff I didn’t cover earlier
This is very wishlisty, but I would absolutely love for the whole class to get magic dispel back, for only priests and paladins to have magic dispel, for magic dispel to feel very useful in mythic+, for Mistweavers to get their interrupt back, and for Rebuke to be deleted. That Mistweaver comment may seem random, but it’s to highlight that being a monk should be a bigger part of their identity than being a healer, just as being a paladin should be a bigger part of our identity than being a DPS.
Make Turn Evil not suck: 30 yd range, no cooldown, works against Lichborne. Also maybe you can make it instant via Selfless Healer.
Add aberrations to the creature types stunned by Wake of Ashes.
Change Blessing of Sanctuary to the libram graphic other blessings use.
1) I really enjoyed playing my ret paladin in WoTLK. Hated the introduction of holy power, so I'd love to see that go and see that WoTLK sort of playstyle returned.
2) I'd just love to do great DMG outside of CD's (like how my arms warrior feels) and then SMACK when I pop cool downs.
3) Crusader strike hitting like a wet noodle is more depressing than listening to Paris Hilton talk. So I'd love to see a big damage increase there, and that would help with our non cool down damage. Also call me crazy, but if they made CS hit harder, leave the charge system, remove holy power and make TV and divine storm have a cool down, I'd have much more fun.
4) and this brings me to Consecration. This needs to be buffed to add to our sustained, or burst AoE in some manner. Either leave it weak sauce dmg, but make my other abilities hit multiple targets for x amount of seconds, or make it actually do some great damage.
5) Blade of justice. This ability is fine I guess, I don't care for the sound but the animation is cool-ish. I'd love if they would have just left exorcism as our proc / holy power regenerator if they are keeping holy power. The range was nice for those Niche mobs / PvP, and I just like it better so that's obviously subjective.
Honestly, they could've just not gave us Blade of justice or exorcism back, and another filler could have been hammer of wrath. Doing good damage (on a cd like it is now) but usable anytime. BUT under 30% HP maybe it would function as an execute. I don't know, I'm just spitballin' here.
6) I'd like to finish off with defensives. Bubble is nice, as is BoP. But ret just feels naked defensive wise. I'm not sure how to fix this, but it needs some sort of mitigation IMO.
I agree with a lot of this, i missed when divine storm was big hitter cooldown rather than just this boring only aoe ability with low damage and terrible animation replacement when the old one was godlike.
I would also add to you list our mobility, an actual game closer would do us wonder, now our few seconds of mounted combat that can be SLOWED, as a fantasy idea is cool but its clunky, slow and doesnt feel good, specially when you need to react NOW and its not only slow but you need to wait for the GCD, might as well jsut bubble, which is also ont he gcd
I think for defensives, a lower cooldown on SoV along with a nerf to its dmg and a talent that would give us dmg reduction while its ok
something that would help us survive otuside of bubble.
A friend told me that we are the CD class, thats our identity, while hes right, we are not cooldown based as in we play around with them and their duraitons, we just get to have fun every minute and make those hit harder eveyr 2, i dont play a class to have fun for 10 seconds every minute. I play outlaw rogue, even tho its not doing good either rn, the feleing of intant mobility along with constant dmg and satifying abilties makes this just feel so much worse in general.
Keep or leave HP, we just need to be better rounded outside of cds, lower our cd dmg but increase it outside of cds so we can actually enjoy our class for mroe than 20 seconds every 2 minutes.