I think demolock needs to be nerfed by a few imps. Too many imps they are clogging my screen and causing huge lag…
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That’s just not how this game works, or has ever worked over the past decade.
It’s not the players fault that Blizzard can’t design themselves out of a wet paper bag, so why should it be the players who are punished?
Ret’s current performance is just another symptom of Blizzard being unable to rework the class, all they did was make a very slightly different way to achieve the same rotational/damage profile problems the spec has had since the Legion rework.
I called it from the start, the rework was a failure. Thankfully I just keep getting more and more evidence that proves that my opinion was the correct one. They just made the same spec but with all the modifiers “passive” instead of the previous Seraphim design lol.
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Then why is it the player’s fault/responsibility to tolerate overperforming things until they’re appropriately balanced? Caution should always err in the side of underpowered.
The rework was a success if the goal was to make Ret the hands-down most braindead-yet-simultaneously-best melee in the game in both PvP and PvE.
The goal now has to be to get back to a realistic baseline of balance.
Yes. Yes it is how this game works. This is precisely how it has worked the past two decades. The more complex something is, and the more layers of player involvement the higher the output has always been the standard.
I see so a bunch of garbage streamers seeking clout are the reason Blizzard decides to punish a class thats been weak for a decade thanks jerks.
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Maybe you shouldn’t be comparing your green parse to their purple.
You aren’t asking for them to be appropriately balanced. You are asking for them to under perform because you deem them to require less skill.
These are two completely different statements.
Yeah, that just isn’t true and if you think it is you haven’t been playing retail in the last decade.
If such nonsense was true there would be a very definite ranking of specs based off difficulty that would not vary from expansion to expansion, whilst easier builds of specs would also never perform well.
Both of which are factually untrue.
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Damage nerf is fine but the 3% → 2% heal nerf is extremely dumb. Thats the rets niche so stop nerfing it.
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No, I’m saying they should underperform until such time that they can be properly balanced and perform adequately via changes to the class. If they want to maintain simplicity, simplicity does less damage. If they want to have a more complicated/bloated rotation, make them do all the damage in the world if they earn it.
I’m saying that if they want to maintain doing all capacities as one spec at current dominance they need to be made significantly more complicated to play. If not, they need to be made much weaker. They are currently the lowest barrier of entry, easiest to use, and highest performing melee in the game - while using a literal four button rotation. That is unacceptable.
That has been my repeated unchanged statement this entire thread.
I would, however, be fine with Ret being F tier for 2-3 months considering that twice now in Dragonflight they’ve been buffed to such a comedic state that they’ve required emergency hot-fixing to try and balance – and are still wildly overpowered.
Oh yeah? You mean like WW being justified as a top dps for 3 expacs straight due to rotation? Or arcane mage stacking? or do you perhaps mean Astral juggling for SL? Ooh, or do you mean Outlaw BF maintenance/RTB CD’s? Or do you perhaps mean Enh shaman having a like 27 button long rotation? Oh, I know - surely you mean any dps not named hunter, or paladin that has a rotation consisting of greater than 4 buttons?
Yeah. Nothing new. More buttons, more complication, more damage. Been that way since TBC. Not looking at Steady shot hunters, because again… hunters, and paladins are beginner classes.
Jsyk, using degrading terms to try and make your “point” sound legitimate via discrediting the others just makes your point look poor. There has been quite literally 20 years of empirical evidence to support this.
The only thing factually untrue is you insisting, with zero support/reason to do so, that “easy to play should be totally viable trust me I said it and that should be enough, totally.”
A good start
but this number looks like a typo, 3% is too low.
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Experienced ret players will be fine. FOTM players who just jumped on the bandwagon will be devastated.
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Nah, it’s fine. The biggest positive from the rework was the change in how they play, not simply the numbers. They will still be amazing fun to play.
one giant issue with ret atm is wings being a 1 minute cd that needs addressed quickly
What’s with the overperform in quotation marks?
I just saw a ret pally put out 110K on +20 temple of jade serpent, 2nd highest was a MM hunter with 92
They are literally lapping other specs on the damage charts. This is the most broken iteration of any spec in Dragonflight to date.
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No you aren’t, literally in your next statement you contradict that immediately.
As above, you want them to under perform as you deem them less challenging to play.
So I will affirm my statement again, you do not wish for them to be balanced, you wish for them to under perform.
As you yourself have admitted above.
Low damage = under performing for a dps role.
Yep, because Blizzard messed up twice for like 3 days each you deem it fair to run a spec that has chronically under performed into the ground for 2-3 months.
Your bias is absolutely ridiculous, stop making absurb statements. It doesn’t look good on you.
Oh no! If only there were statistics that would prove the falsity of this statement!
Oh look at how these specs are constantly at the top because of how difficult they are to play!
Top 3 every patch!
Would you like me to contine? Because boy, I can hardly remember times where Enhance was considered a “top tier” dps.
I think they had a couple of weeks in DF right? And then they performed decently in SotFO but not ridiculously so, and beaten by specs like Destro which is as laughably easy to play as Ret and BM.
God I’d hate to make that statement only to immediately be proved incorrect by statistical evidence.
I noticed you didn’t mention Feral by the way.
You know, a spec that has had a reputation of being difficult whilst also simultaneously being known as a meme for it’s poor performance.
So the question, can you give a ranking of classes by difficulty and then also back that up with evidence that statistically those difficulties correlate unerringly to their performance rankings?
The answer to that question is no. No you can’t.
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Same thing happened in Wrath. They clumsily made Rets OP, then destroyed every Paladin spec trying to fix it. It was the end of me maining a Paladin.
I think my biggest quarrels with this nerf are as follows:
- the vast majority of the affirmative responses to it are from a pvp standpoint
- any amount of adequate and comprehensive testing could have prevented this
- it covers too much ground to be adequately informed, adjust one parameter at a time and see how it works
kneejerk, poorly tested responses are a huge issue in this game’s design and balance. Just do better!
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It’s baffling the lengths you went through out of your way to ignore 66% of the entire game – M+, and PvP – in order to cling desperately to raid logs… that mean very little in a game where raiding is no longer competitive and is eventually going to be extinct.
AGAIN: I want them to perform adequately to the difficulty of execution, similar to every other class in the game. Low input = low output. YOU are the one skewing it beyond that. If you want to do high damage, you should have to invest equally to other people that are dealing high damage. You don’t get to be the beginner friendly easy-as-pie 9-year-old-designed kid’s class while sitting ontop of the meter insisting it’s so hard to press 25% of your rotation at any given point by finger-rolling your hand 1-2-3-4 and hoping for the best.
Again - because I’m blocking you after this, and you continually try to skew this: Your input should equal your output. If Paladin is going to remain comedically easy to play, it cannot remain dominantly powerful. One or the other has to change. It has to be either made harder, or made to do less damage.
“twice for 3 days” - Original ret Ashen oneshot was broken for 2 weeks before emergency hotfixed. Current ret has been nerfed 3 times since 10.0.7, week1 was a mid-week emergency hotfix 5 days (Saturday) later. Once again, you’re just flat out wrong on everything you say.
I agree, your bias is absolutely staggering. If you want to be equal to everyone else, you need to be participating equally to everyone else. If your rotation is 4 buttons versus Barry the Balance’s 8, or Rodger the Rogue’s 14 … or anyone sans BM hunter’s equally goofy 4 button rotation – you need to be weaker because you are not playing something with nearly the involvement. You are playing easy mode. If you want more, you need to do more. If you want to continue doing less, you should receive less. This is the entire foundation of not only MMORPG’s, but time investment, IRL efforts, in-game efforts, and literally everything possibly measurably by society. More in = more out. Less in = less out.
If you’d like to look at those same logs? Enh is ranked #2 expansion wide for melee. WW being top 3. Arcane was top caster for 3 months, “uhm wehlel achktnuchaully in SL…”. Oh what’s that? Fire was S+ M+ through all of BFA/SL due to aoe cap? Oh. Okay.
Like you’re cherry picking really remote statistics while ignoring 66% of the entire majority of the game that the vast majority of the playerbase participates in in order to link… mythic only kill logs? Why’s that? Because if you had changed to all specs your results wildly skew? oh. Okay.
You’re a clown my guy. I knew I shouldn’t have wasted time with the Barthilas troll, but I thought that if you were presented with enough facts/evidence you’d look beyond the scope of your self favoritism and look into balance.
God I’d hate to have go through all the effort to deliberately find raid only, mythic only skewed logs while simultaneously ignoring 66% of the game just to try and make a point that I failed at making in the process anyway.
Sure I can - Go back to that warcraftlog website, but instead of spending an hour trying to find things that suit your narrative… Look at the people pushing +27 keys. Look at the top 0.1% of the game, and then compare it to the top 1%, to 5%, to 10%, to 50%, and so on. Then compare it back 3 expansions. You can empirically prove that easier=less, harder=more.
I’m genuinely baffled I wasted this much time on a Barthilas “ERROR: USER HAS HIDDEN ACCOUNT” raider io profile troll. You’ll get no more from me.
When Ret continues to receive nerfs, I don’t want to hear a peep out of you - because you’re being told upfront: Less rotation equals less damage. You are not playing as much, or as complicated as anyone else. This is the entire nature of a beginner class. You are supposed to hit a ceiling where you cannot compete anymore.
uhhhhh, all I have to say to this mess is one word
Hunters.
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You can stop damage on casters by shutting them down, you cant stop melee dmg as easily.
Shaman never stay on top long.
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