Dear god I sincerely hope not. Enhance feels amazing in PvE. In PvP I agree they feel bad though.
Current leaks are wild.
We obviously don’t know what direction this is going to take, what is truly for this rework or not.
However, just putting it out there.
- NEW Hammer and Anvil - While Divine Steed is active you radiate 2000 Holy enemy damaging all nearby enemies for 2000 every 2000 sec.
Cannot go live. No more utility/mobility/defensives doing damage.
Mobility is enough of an issue as it is without being encouraged to use it as a dps cd as frequently as possible.
Also
Punishment - Successfully interrupting an enemy with Rebuke casts Templar’s Verdict
Unless Templar’s Verdict is an overhaul, or the new name for AoW (as one talent is named), or anyother completely different ability to what we currently have this also cannot go live.
Rewarding a successful interrupt is fine, I don’t think it should be necessary, but if it encourages people to interrupt then fine.
However. 3 HP worth of resource generation AND a GCD is just way too much, especially if it’s accounted for balance wise.
I don’t want to have to fight with my raid/group to allow me to interrupt everything so I can do amazing damage, nor do I want to be stuck doing below average damage because we have other classes better suited to perform kicks (such as a Wind Shear) or simply people jumping in and instantly trying to kick the first thing regardless of interrupt rotation/priority.
I also don’t want to be encouraged to kick every non-essential cast to do better dps and then be forced to rely on other players to interrupt the key abilities as I’m rolling my kick on cd.
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Yea, some of those datamined talents are really busted. Most of them will most likely not see the light of day. And they are really messed up, talents that have two different tooltips, some different talents that have the same tooltip and so on. Guess we have to wait until at least next week until we get the bigger picture. I just hope they don’t mess up ret totally because they run out of time.
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Reminding blizzard that a “leap” is already displayed by several major paladin lore characters, especially one in game such as here:
Problem with data mining is that Blizzard purposely creates skills/tool tips to mislead players, in order to conceal what they are actually doing.
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They literally have said in the first blue post about Ret revamp, that it was not ready and full context could not be read from this build. I’m not sure how you interpreted that as being intentionally misleading, it’s plainly honest. Even without that, what you see in the middle of development is exactly that, the middle of development.
You’re going to see fragments of different internal builds, prototype tests for different concepts of the same ability, etc… Relax, nobody’s out to trick you 
But it is good advice not to get attached to any one of those datamined things, It’s still in the oven. We already tasted the undercooked talents earlier, it wasn’t good. Let the chefs do their work.
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Really a lot of interesting things in the data mining, though I’m taking it with a grain of salt. Passive sustained healing is nice and will definately help with survival. Hopefully DP and SoV being seperate is true.
I’m seeing a lot of good ideas and look forward to trying things out when we start to get more builds on the PTR.
Mobility wise they’re giving us range on our abilities, which does alleviate some of the issues. Historically Ret had this niche before from Cata through WoD.
I don’t think they really want to touch the class tree more than they have to, so I suspect we’ll be stuck with Divine Steed and Consecration (unless we get something that mods it into another spell like Divine Hammer) until 11.0. For the record I’m OK with them trying things with Divine Steed, and seeing if they can get the knight fantasy to work. Them trying new things with the spec is far better than the treatment we got from BfA beta through DF beta.
Some much needed quality of life changes for paladins
No more shared forbearance between paladins. Paladins should be allowed to Lay on Hands, etc on the same target as each other. Not lock each other out. No other class suffers from this problem. Being able to back to back Bless of Protection isn’t going to break the game. But if that is a problem, then at least make it so Divine Shield isn’t locked out by other paladin’s use of Lay on Hands or Blessing of Protection on you. No player wants be locked out and die, because someone trolled them or made a mistake.
Blessing of Sacrifice and Blessing of Protection no longer restricted to being in a party. Restrictions like this should never ever been a thing. You shouldn’t have to be in a party to assist someone out in the world. You don’t have to be in a party with Lay on Hands, why should these abilities be any different.
Defensive and movement abilities off the GCD. These abilities are reactionary, you need to be able to use when you need to react to a situation.
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Thirty to 45 sec is my favorite Blizzard depiction of a paladin. There is of course what I like to call the “NPC paladin leap,” and Judgment is so much cooler here than it is in-game. Back in Legion it was unfortunately given a graphic very similar to Hammer of Wrath because HoW was removed from the game…
HoW we throw, Judgment we call from the heavens. Variety in attack animations is important to the feel of a spec. Just look at how Liadrin parts the heavens at 38 sec, and the divine energy her hammer leaves in its wake. It’s like a lightning bolt. You almost can’t see the hammer itself due to its speed and impact. Sadly, back in Legion, Judgment was literally given a travel time. Again, that’s how HoW is supposed to work, not Judgment.
And we all remember this, right? Divine Storm had swirling hammers, sure, but the main attraction was the crackling holy lightning aftershocks. Now it’s just hammers. It went from awesome to a bit goofy.
All that said, I realize there are more important issues.
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I’ve been playing Ret Paladin since the beginning of Burning Crusade. Not as long as some and longer then some others. I’m interested to see what the goals of the talent & ability revamps are going to be moving into the 10.0.7 test cycle.
There is a lot of feedback of various degrees of quality in this post. My hope is you can at least muse over the majority of the feedback instead of writing them off entirely simply because they do not fall into what you, the developers, like the feel of. What feels good to you will not always feel good to others.
The talent system really felt like the right step towards giving players the ability to play the way they want. Now is the time to make good on that first step and keep it in stride as there is always room to improve. I wish you the best of luck in that endeavor!
Yes.
It’s disheartening that games and concept arts that came AFTER WoW are doing a better job at depicting paladins than the game that should represent this fantasy the best.
Yrel in HotS comes to mind and this trailer does a fantastic job to convey the same energy and excitement.
If you play paladin depictions in other Blizzard game and then come to WoW you are left scratching your head at how different and not as satisfying the class/spec is.
Hell even within WoW itself, the difference between how Paladins NPC are depicted and what we can do is bizarre. As Greatbrae showed…
Turalyon can leap just as his son Arator can too. Both paladin.
Tirion leaps to destroy Frostmourne when we defeat the Lich King.
They have soo much material that they can draw upon to update it.
I say use it.
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I have been hearing that hearthstone liadrin can leap too.
So far the only 2 paladins i can recall that does not was arthas (pre-LK) and uther.
the new changes look amazing!
Datamined New Paladin Spells on Patch 10.0.7 PTR - Sneak Peek at Ret Paladin Rework? - Wowhead News
I hope with these changes Prot sees some updates as well. Would be nice to assist our groups more rather than focusing on just ourselves.
Maybe give some of our buffs to the group, like make Eye of Tyr a group/raid utility?
Also, Bulward of order could use a buff, back to Beta pre-gutted version.
Remove bubble, add us a proper defence, wall.
You dont have to remove bubble for that…we had divine protection and bubble for many years. People put way too much stock in bubble…
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No matter what ends up happening, someone is going to be dissapointed in how this turns out. There are a lot of varied and passionate opinions. Regardless something is being done.
An idea for utility would be that Eye for an Eye would provide it’s normal DR, and have a small aura that when anyone within it was struck all allies who were able, would get a free weapon swing that did holy damage.
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paladin leap would be insane mobility, also a 2h w/ shield variation as a defensive animation would be different
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I don’t want our def to be this bad just because we have a trash called divine shield that everyone and their mother can dispel, it’s so useless in a game overrun by warriors and priests.
We need Def stance, anti magic shell. 40% wall or something like that.
Divine protection? It’s D tier wall, 20% like what can it save u from exactly?
So what if we had it for years? There’s an obvious reason why the spec is being reworked, bubble is outdated, ret is the only spec that has highest death rates last few expansions.
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Well met!
Good evening, I have been playing Paladin and Ret for nearly 15 years and have obtained some of the highest achievements a player can obtain and am highly questioning this ground up rework that I believe is not so necessary, but rather a smaller handful of changes so we don’t have to basically relearn a whole new class… again.
We’re doing a substantial rework to the Retribution talent tree in patch 10.0.7. Rebuilding the Retribution talent tree from the ground up means significant changes ahead. However, the talent tree itself will not be available in our first PTR build(s), so initial testing on the PTR will be missing important context.
It doesn’t need a rework from the ground up… but rather a few necessary changes. If you plan to appeal Ret to lower skilled players you gonna break the class and make it to OP requiring a hard nerf once all the bandwagon hopers and sheep follow.
Nonetheless, we’d like to share our major goals for Retribution with you.
Thank you.
Button bloat: Retribution Paladins currently have a fairly large number of abilities, and some of these feel unnecessary and inefficient. We’re working to tone this down and have a more focused set of abilities and cooldowns.
Agreed, like consecration and exorcism. Ret don’t need DoTs we are the DoC Class
Stacking modifiers: There are currently several talents and abilities that provide stacking bonuses, which can make for a confusing and messy playstyle that deals extreme burst damage, but in return leaves your core abilities feeling unsatisfying and under-tuned. We intend to significantly change this. We want your core abilities to feel good and powerful when used in all situations. This doesn’t mean we’re reducing all elements of burst damage, but we do want to make burst more purposeful and deliberate, while also allowing options that provide sustained damage.
This is where I disagree. Stacking modifiers is what makes Ret, Ret and seperates the good from the not so good and make players have to use a rotation or know the priority status when abilities come off CD or get your HP up.
Alternate Option: Procs/Buffs like Aspiration of Divinity(max utilization not even possible so what’s the point?), Seraphim with Art of War(Also mostly useless or such a small insignificant impact), and Dawn/Dusk proc upkeep probably best for above 3 below 3 for the procing instead of full/empty.
Survivability: Retribution Paladins currently have one of the highest death rates across all forms of content. For a plate wearing class with hybrid healing, this doesn’t feel right. We’re looking to strengthen them through a mixture of passive bonus and improvements to active abilities and cooldowns, while keeping the degree of challenge that results from being a melee-based spec.
Highly disagree. Melee is tough, that’s part of being melee. With more mobility and as stated previously less bloated action bars, will give the players more time and better attention to survive. They DO NOT need a straight up Survivability buff, you will break and way over tune Ret doing this.
Maneuverability: We recognize that there’s an issue here and we hope to make some improvements. However, we want to set clear expectations. Retribution Paladins should not expect to gain the mobility of Rogues.
Seriously, you cut our balls off after SL reducing Steed by like 80%+.
Utility: The changes that Dragonflight brought to Retribution have caused some conflict for players, forcing the Ret Paladin to choose between providing benefits to their groups or benefiting themselves. This choice can be interesting, but due to the way this has historically worked for Paladins, it hasn’t felt right in Dragonflight. So, we’re looking to make changes here that allow you to feel good and improve your own damage while also providing the group benefits that you’re used to. We’re also looking into additional utility improvements for Paladins during the 10.0.7 test cycle.
I want to eyeroll this. The only Utility Ret needs is a misdirection. The high threat problem is ridiculous and we can’t rely on the blank heads that have misdirections and don’t use them. Far to often does 5min CDs need to be wasted cause of threat and still die is absurd and makes the class pointless to play if I can’t play it at its full potential and have abilities to use them for what they should and need to be used for, there actual purpose.
We’re looking forward to hearing your feedback on the points above, as well as anything else about Retribution that you’d like to share. Thank you!
If you are serious I would be willing to give more feedback and some specifics.
Dude they arent getting rid of bubble. My point was that we had a stronger DP AND a stronger bubble in the past and we were not broken. They can do it again.