Retribution DPS Theorycraft Sheets

I like Esfand, but I believe his impressive Ret raiding numbers come from private servers that use incorrect spell power coefficients for all sorts of things (spells, items, etc.).

That is a fair point but i think that the coefficients actually effected it negatively. I know from my experience as a prot paladin seal of righteousness coefficients weren’t as high as they should have been and i know some of the talents were not working at all.

I can’t remember all the specifics because i haven’t looked in a long time

I’m interested in seeing how these numbers look for a Dwarf Ret Paladin in PvE. The reason I want to roll Dwarf and try is it’s just better in PvP scenarios. Higher base health + stone form for Rogues blind, etc. There are times in PvP when that extra 200-300 health really matters + stone form armor. I see this constantly on pservers. Has anyone tried with Dwarf?

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yes I’ve played Dorf after being Human and in PvP it is absolutely better due to having Stoneform

in PvE you obviously miss the weapon skill but it’s not game breaking by any means

Thank you. How much does the lack of weapon imp weapon skill decrease DPS in a raid? Is it a drastic difference is what I’m saying?

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no it’s not the end of the world - sure you need to have more items with +hit and your whites glance more often but it is nothing to write home about

the takeway is this - if you plan to PvP a lot then go Dorf - if you only plan to PvE then go Human

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@Theloras
Can you repost the discord?
Thanks

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Ret is still dookie in classic

https://discord.gg/8nCyKz

Thanks for asking these questions Setup, and thanks Theloras for answering them.

I have been VERY middle of the line between human and dwarf and might roll dwarf now. My favorite race but humans look so much better in Judgement haha and they have a slightly better overall feel. But major wpvper here so yeah.

yea animation wise, I prefer Human over Dorf but Stoneform is so good for PvP that I can’t give it up

I know what you mean.

I LOVE Dwarves hands down. But hunter wise NE shadowmeld with a cat pet stealthing is soooooo freaking OP advantage.

BM/MM hybrid just right, pet attack first let them wander around wondering wtf you are at while pet doing decent dmg and when they finally give up to go pet you launch assault with aimed shot. So easy.

DespotusToday at 2:25 PM

New sheet update! Added usable items like sappers as well as a bunch of new items

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411604493747093535/558763139207004190/Despotus_Paladin_Spreadsheet_v0.3.5.xlsx

Good laugh

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get on our level bro…

What makes you believe that? Where is your evidence?

We’ve got video footage of rets pulling dps in the 550 area from back in the day, and in that footage, they clearly aren’t optimizing very well and there are errors. Esfand’s logs, and yes I’ve looked at his logs, suggest that all he’s doing is optimizing the class. The numbers I see for ret look pretty legitimate. Nothing he’s doing suggests that ret PvE isn’t blizzlike on the biggest private servers right now.

Compare Esfand’s dps to some of the old Esotarius footage and look at how much more optimized Esfand is, and how optimized Salad Bakers is as a guild, compared to 2005 guilds. Nothing looks out of place if you consider every factor.

What spells and items is he using that aren’t blizzlike? Dig through his videos, logs, anything, and show me an example that would make a major impact on his DPS. Ret’s had more bugs hindering its dps on private servers than helping it. Holy resistance doesn’t exist, but on private servers it did for a long time. Some recent math suggests that upper naxx, and possibly other raids have their armor values overtuned, not undertuned, meaning players are doing less dps than they will in classic.

I’m not as optimistic. The impact of weapon skill in PvE is pretty huge. Dwarf’s PvE itemization is pretty borked compared to human’s. ‘some more items with + hit’, while correct, isn’t very realistic. There are a finite number of gear slots and ret is incredibly stat hungry, gear with +2% hit on it is BiS for every class that cares about hit, and even if we do get the piece, we trade out % crit or primary stats for it that human wouldn’t otherwise need. In PvE we cannot afford to opt out of stats. We’re already behind.

If your primary focus is PvP, play dwarf, raid holy and play another spec in PvP. Ret is one of those classes where if you aren’t minmaxing at every possible angle, you will not be viable. PvE and PvP ret are not the same build and you will be ineffective in raid with a PvP spec and ineffective in PvP with a PvE spec. You can’t use one spec for both. It sounds like you want a catchall one size fits all build for your character, but that’s not a very realistic for Paladin, let alone ret.

Ret is one of the cases where not optimizing will mean you aren’t viable. Playing ret in PvE means you’re fighting against your class for viability. If you opt out of advantages and start piling on disadvantages, your build will be useless.

PvP and PvE ret are not the same spec. You need to respec between raiding and PvP, you may as well raid holy if you play a dwarf for the PvP racials. You have to respec either way.

Dwarf ret PvE is viable, but drinking piss is a viable alternative to water and we don’t drink it. Ret struggles too much before putting more penalties on your dps.

If you want a one size fits all build, play Fury/Prot warrior, it’s viable bordering on optimal in every form of content, as tank or dps, with a single spec, with minimal itemization differences between styles of content.

See this wouldn’t be an issue, but white hits compose a MASSIVE part of ret’s damage. More than any other class, other than Enhancment, and it’s as equally vital to role Orc on Enh for that same reason. Of all the specs that are really race locked in PvE, Ret and Enh are the worst offenders because of glancing blows, their DPS composition, and their already low dps.

I’d say taking dwarf is viable, but the mentality that goes into picking dwarf like that isn’t something I want to see out of potential ret PvE players.

I rolled a pali in vanilla and quickly changed after being forced to healbot. Popular didnt mean they work as intended.

I hear what you are saying and it all comes down to personal preference. In my case since I PvP a lot - being able to remove a Rogue’s blind or a Warrior’s bleed is so much better for me hence why I go Dorf.