Retool Proving Grounds to Make People Actually "Git Gud"

[Akston-area-52]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

Fine, but if you ever say “you just don’t want to put in the effort” I will quote you here, being against effort

I am well aware you will quote me out of context

[Aliandrin-fizzcrank (Aliandrin)]

@Malgorok-zuljin

And you know you still control your character in those scenarios, right?

Yes, and? The followers basically do the dungeon for you.

@Akston-area-52

I am well aware you will quote me out of context

You’re saying no to a certain amount of effort = reward. Even with it being designed to be an incredibly punishing time investment designed so that anyone who is capable of improving, does.

[Mkali-frostwolf]

Follower Dungeons also let you practice, including with friends. So I’m still not seeing why they need to invest more time into Proving Grounds when we already have a practice mode for group content.

[Christtel-stormrage]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

bot

Yay how to not play the game.

Are you insane?

[Myzrym-area-52]

Idk why people are acting like “adding” botting would kill the game when everyone already gets a free (max ilvl) heroic track equivalent piece from botting Ansurek.

Would it really kill the game if that happened 3 or 4 times over the course of a season instead of just once? I’m not convinced it would.

[Malgorok-zuljin]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

Yes, and? The followers basically do the dungeon for you.

@Malgorok-zuljin

Plus its heavily limited on rewards

Now what could be the difference between the tiny chance of getting a low ilvl reward

And doing other stuff, hmmmmmm

[Akston-area-52]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

You’re saying no to a certain amount of effort = reward.

Correct. Because it’s a silly concept.

Effort should never be the only thing required for player power rewards.

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

Even with it being designed to be an incredibly punishing time investment designed so that anyone who is capable of improving, does.

Improving is not required for your plan. I support people trying to be better.

[Akston-area-52]

I don’t know how to respond seriously to this.

Allowing a player to have their character play automatically as a bot is not something that should be pushed for.

[Aliandrin-fizzcrank (Aliandrin)]

@Akston-area-52

Correct. Because it’s a silly concept.

Effort should never be the only thing required for player power rewards.

So it’s not about “git gud” and you should never be telling people that. You should be admitting that you think natural skill should be a barrier, and that the game should be designed to keep some people out no matter how hard they try.

[Akston-area-52]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

So it’s not about “git gud” and you should never be telling people that. You should be admitting that you think natural skill should be a barrier, and that the game should be designed to keep some people out no matter how hard they try

That has nothing to do with what I said.

But I appreciate how you are twisting my words.

[Malgorok-zuljin]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

You should be admitting that you think natural skill should be a barrier

Do you actually think people are just born with the ability to play a video game…?

[Myzrym-area-52]

@Akston-area-52

Allowing a player to have their character play automatically as a bot is not something that should be pushed for.

Well I misunderstood/misread/derped on the actual thing being discussed if that is what we are talking here.

No. Absolutely under no circumstances should you just get a freebie like that.

[Akston-area-52]

Yeah it’s not about playing with follower NPCs.

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

And the reward? For every fight you do fifty times (this assumes you get zero stars; more stars mean you get this reward quicker) you get to bot that fight and ensure your character performs perfectly.

[Aliandrin-fizzcrank (Aliandrin)]

@Akston-area-52

That has nothing to do with what I said.

It does. Take the person with the lowest natural skill. He should either be able to earn the reward with enough effort, or he shouldn’t. You picked shouldn’t.

[Akston-area-52]

Having low natural video game skill doesn’t mean you can’t learn.

Pretty negative opinion you have of your fellow player.

It’s a progression game. You want to remove progression.

[Myzrym-area-52]

I thought we were talking some kind of hard to reach threshold that would provide you with an AI party for a single run. The idea of being given free automation for a run defeats the entire purpose of proving grounds to begin with.

People would just run it for the eventual freebie run with no goal of learning in the first place.

[Aliandrin-fizzcrank (Aliandrin)]

@Akston-area-52

Having low natural video game skill doesn’t mean you can’t learn.

Pretty negative opinion you have of your fellow player.

It’s a progression game. You want to remove progression.

No, I want to add it. Again, low natural skill = shouldn’t get a reward, according to you.

@Akston-area-52

Effort should never be the only thing required for player power rewards.

There are only two things in the game. Effort, and natural skill.

[Skalpy-darkspear]

Update proving grounds : yes

All that other nonsense about botting: nah

[Akston-area-52]

I agree. Which is one of the many reasons I don’t support the reward structure suggested.

I love the concept of the proving grounds. Liked them originally.

[Akston-area-52]

@Aliandrin-fizzcrank

No, I want to add it. Again, low natural skill = shouldn’t get a reward, according to you.

@Akston-area-52

Effort should never be the only thing required for player power rewards.

There are only two things in the game. Effort, and natural skill.

But you ignored what I said.

@Akston-area-52

Having low natural video game skill doesn’t mean you can’t learn.

Pretty negative opinion you have of your fellow player.