I think you do.
You’ve been found out as a 445 ilevel LFR emissary questing ret who wouldn’t know what to do with the power you claim to so desperately need
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Thank god that’s out of the way now and we can stop derailing the thread.
Except the Paladin complaint is rarely damage. It’s cohesiveness, execution, and toolkit.
People just want Ret to feel like it isn’t a spec made entirely of bandaids.
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Literally nobody is talking about damage at this point when tuning still has to happen. We are talking mechanics, mobility and useless and/or redundant talents, clunky talent combinations and talents (mostly PvP) that even do not work at the moment because of certain skills being taken away from us.
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i’d give anything for them to just revert ret to WoD at this point.
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I haven’t been following a lot of SL stuff lately. That bad? I’ve played my paladin almost exclusively for 11 years except during Cata when I mained Warrior. I only PVE though so any PvP complaints mean squat to me and those often seem to attract the most whiners.
All the buff spenders seem like garbage though. Inquisition is bad enough. Adding back Seraphim and that stupid Holy Avenger too? JFC
Been trying to decide if I wanted to switch things up for Shadowlands… if Ret is that bad maybe time to give Warrior another spin…
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Avenging Wrath isn’t being “nerfed” - it has been split into two tiers. Lots of spells come in two tiers while levelling. And you get the second tier at level 49, so literally nothing is changing about your AW going into prepatch at max level.
I don’t know what you’re even complaining about regarding Blade of Wrath. It’s still an okay talent, made more appealing by the incorporation of Hammer of Wrath into our baseline toolkit. There’s now a clear content choice decision on this tier between single-target and AoE. Fires of Justice still looks unappealing, I admit: it feels good to use (shorter CD on CS and the proc smoothe out the rotation) but number-wise buffing a weak-hitting spell like CS doesn’t amount to much.
Again, splitting a spell into two tiers for levelling isn’t a “nerf”. Protection warriors haven’t been playing a gimp’d spec just because they had to wait until a high level to get a second Shield Block charge. It’s annoying that the second level is above level 50 (meaning you’ll have to wait until the xpac drops to actually level to it), but you’re also getting it baseline now.
I would call the BoS -> SoV trick a clever use of game mechanics, not “degenerate” gameplay. Like using Lichborne -> Death Coil for healing as a DK. It’s certainly less disruptive than using SoV and Taunt. You can still use it to save teammates instead though, since I’ve never had a problem standing in fire to pop my SoV. I don’t know why some PvE-exclusive players have such a hateon for SoV.
I agree that Retribution Aura feels like bad design.
Devotion Aura is fine. Blessing of Kings wasn’t exactly stellar damage mitigation, when you consider the actual size of the shield compared to our healthpool. Feels pretty comparable, though I’d prefer having access to both. It not stack is indeed a semi-problem for raid, and as a solution I’d suggest letting it stack in a limited way (one Paladin = 3%, two Paladins = 3+2%, three Paladins = 3+2+1%) so that you get some benefit out of multiple Retribution Paladins, but it’s not overwhelming enough that bringing 3+ paladins feels mandatory.
While I get the QoL annoyance of switching your aura constantly, keep in mind that you could just… not. It’s not like world content is threatening. You can run Crusader Aura while out doing your dailies and you shouldn’t particularly miss your DR from Devotion Aura. Run Devotion in group content, since you can’t usually mount in dungeons anyway. Feels like a mountain-out-of-a-molehill problem. What I’d actually like out of a Crusader Aura change is to make it apply to your speed both mounted and on-foot. It would assist our mobility problem and make it a useful aura in combat.
Turn Evil does indeed have a problem. We figured out a long time ago that you don’t fear trash in a dungeon. Definitely needs a change to be a Cower.
Yeah, new WoG is trash. 3 HP to heal 10% of my HP is a bad investment. It does seem to crit fairly often, but I’d still rather use that HP on a TV to buff FoL (Selfless Healer) and cast that instead. That entire row needs to be looked at - it’s basically dead due to JV still sucking and HH being painfully niche.
Greater Blessings should be returned. Not sure anyone would dispute you here.
What are you even talking about with “lack of a snare”? Hand of Hindrance is right there.
Sadly, the only way you’re going to get mobility back in your base kit is to tone back your damage a bit. Bliz has assigned you the identity of being a slow but hard-hitting spec. I understand that you don’t like it, and that it wasn’t always this way, but that is the current design intention. If you want a spec that has better mobility with slightly weaker (but more frequent) burst, Arms Warrior is worth checking out. You do lose out on all the survivability, though.
To say that we “lost more than we gained” is a bit of a stretch, though. I feel like we made out pretty well. We have some good new talents, the talents we lost became baseline (though WoG is garbage, HoW comes to us as-is once you get rank two at level 52; Consecration is no more “meh” now than it was as a talent and I suggest using it as a filler spell during the semi-frequent windows where you have a free GCD). Give back blessings and buff some of the chronically under-performing spells/talents so that they’re competitive and I’ll feel pretty happy going into SL.
4 Likes
Check the ret abilities again, perhaps you find, why AW is nerfed until level 58 come prepatch.
Hammer of Wrath rank 2? Okay. It’s not like Hammer of Wrath is the be-all end-all of Paladin. It excels specifically for raid bosses, and that’s hardly going to be a concern during prepatch. Blade of Wrath is competitive. Give it a shot.
And it’s still not a nerf. You’re going to have it back at max level again. You don’t need to talent into the “full” version. You don’t need to pick a specific covenant for it. You’re just going to have it.
It’s insane to me that anyone would spin getting HoW as a baseline ability into being a nerf. Even during the short time that you’re stuck at level 50 for prepatch it isn’t a nerf - you can’t honestly tell me that you think you’ll deal less damage over an encounter with Blade of Wrath + Rank 1 HoW compared to just HoW.
Well, ret pallies have half talent useless tbh
No it isnt… And im quoting to wait a year to people crying about ret pally again, like did in wod, legion and bfa about problens that blizzard dont give a dam
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And more do we not need to know of your "cleverness“…
Oh boy, give me a break.
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Sadly, the only way you’re going to get mobility back in your base kit is to tone back your damage a bit. Bliz has assigned you the identity of being a slow but hard-hitting spec. I understand that you don’t like it, and that it wasn’t always this way, but that is the current design intention. If you want a spec that has better mobility with slightly weaker (but more frequent) burst, Arms Warrior is worth checking out. You do lose out on all the survivability, though.
Fury would be better yet - hits like a truck, has a smooth and fluid rotation, and enormous sustain, as well as the usual Warrior mobility.
5 Likes
I’m glad some people is finally realizing that ret has been pretty bad for the entire alpha/beta so far.
It only took a spriest rework but still. I’m not sure what’s going to happen to ret, it kinda looks like another enhance from bfa we might get fixes “later” cuz there’s all other specs/classes asking for the same atention that spriest just got.
Watching some old videos and it kinda makes hard to believe that ret has finally reached this point… we might need a complete rework at this point, I don’t think getting certain things back might work well in the end it will feel like a tiny band aid on a huge wound.
I’m not talking about numbers here, keep that in mind that our rotation is still the same from bfa except maybe 1-2 things depending.
Enhance got some atention, spriest got a complete rework… we will ever get our turn at all this expansion?
The sky isnt falling but remember we’re stuck with a class for the next 2-3 years.
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I’ve complained about our overall damage literally not one single time, this isn’t about damage, it’s about mechanics and feel, pay a little attention and cease with your pitiful attempts at insulting me.
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Since the vast majority of us took HoW as a talent I’d say from feel alone that this will be at least a “fun” and flow nerf in prepatch.
Not using HoW during a long Crusade just feels wretched, and while, yes we will get it back @ 58, it will be a rough few weeks.
I also feel you downplayed HoW, it isn’t useful ONLY for specific raid bosses, and it contributes around 8% of my overall damage in many encounters.
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Right, should have been more clear. When I said it EXCELS for raid bosses, I mean that it’s only clearly superior to Blade of Wrath on boss fights. Outside of boss fights, it is still good, but Blade of Wrath is equally competitive.
"Imagine whining for 5 years, either man up and pick another class or stop QQ, I’ve seen tons of rets pumping out great damage, just because you are incapable at paladin does not mean everyone else is. "
Imagine us putting up with your trollness for 5 years. Go pound sand Nocare. Your not helping. Those who play Ret Pallies do not like the way it plays period. It’s a train wreck. So go troll your rogue forums unless they have already tossed you out for being a troll.
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It’s not about damage this rotation feels bad and the talents feel bad.
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A lot of you would have never made it as Ret back in the BC days 
I played Ret during BC, a BE Pally was my main in BC.
This is not BC, so this is irrelevant… No class is designed like it was back then, not a single one.