Yeah it was awesome! Actually the trash wasn’t even meaningless it usually hurt and you had to know what to do.
Right, but it still exists, lol. It’s just a 10 man (minimum) format.
There have been plenty of cases in the past where either you CC certain trash mobs or your party dies.
Crowd Control dies under a timer. Ain’t nobody got time fo dat.
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Hell even affixes die under a timer cause it’s inconvenient. You can’t win. Nothing is perfect tho every design has its flaws it’s just the zerg speedrunning design won out.
I think this is almost certainly what is going to happen with Delves. I suspect that the people who do go deep into Delves are the same kinds of folks who embraced Endless Corridors, 5 Mask Horrific visions and the Mage Tower: Players who like doing hard content.
I think the issue Blizzard is likely to encounter is that the folks for whom they are building Delves, which is to say the more casual open-world player, aren’t looking for content in the way Blizzard conceives of it. Rather they are looking for natural human experiences that the open world can facilitate, they are looking for the Ultima Online kinds of unscripted open-world content.
I just don’t think Delves are going to be able to satisfy those folks.
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Thanks for reminding me how cringe Retail discourse is. Anti-social Andies having to ruin everything fun.
Okay, but this is irrelevant. You can still zerg trash and even if it takes you 10 wipes, as long as 1 mob dies every pull or 2, you’re gonna progress. Trash is irrelevant. This is why fort weeks are big weeks for pushing, because there are fewer hard stop moments when it isnt bosses being buffed out the wazoo.
In seasons where the timers are actually relevant, trash serves to hinder the group enough to run out time, not hard stop a group.
Complex? WoW?
I think that, much like Horrific Visions, the fact that people CAN get Heroic raid-level loot from delves, but they personally AREN’T getting it (due to skill issues) is going to be a major sore spot.
(See also Mage Tower, Torghast, blah blah blah.)
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I’m willing to bet we’ll see calls to nerf whatever makes Delves hard within the first month of them being out. I will even return to this thread and necro it when that happens haha.
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Are you an MDI player or World First player?
Your a winner in my book.
Hey, if you would rather wipe on the same trash pull 5 times instead of CCing a dangerous mob or two, that’s your call to make.
If it isn’t doable by pulling the entire group at once, you’re forcing a CC meta. Warriors will never see the inside of a dungeon again, but good design fella.
I will say this, I play old versions of both EQ & WoW & while I simply prefer the older style games (closer to pen & paper RPGs) I dont get with the hyper optimized players who want to speed rush everything.
For EQ, I have done:
- TLP servers - kinda original servers with many modern day convinces (or even different rulesets trying new things)
- P99 - trying to be as close to original servers as possible
- Al’Akbar project (really old mac version)
- Ran my own EQEmu server- complete with bots to fill out groups and allowing RL friends to join
For WoW:
- Retail since launch
- Ever Classic
- I tried a private server that was Vanilla era that had companions for dungeon running (didnt stay long) & I only feel comfortable on official servers (or ones that companies officially support like P99 or EQEmu - I dont try them because free - I have almost always had a WoW sub over WoWs life)
I like the older style except maybe the leveling speed from mid level on up where you are expected to be running dungeons for exp. I like the simpler combat. I like building my character, not my twitch skills (there is a reason I am a PC gamer and not a console player)
I was 30 when these games started coming on & I am NOT trying to relive my youth. Its just the settings, story and playstyle that fit me better. I like paladins being actual holy religious warriors, not someone who just uses a cosmological force because they have a strong belief in something. I like heroic leaders that inspire you to want to fight for them (Genn) or characters you hated but got to go out like a boss (Varian / Cairne)
TL:DR yes WoW is simply too clever for its own good. if it just stayed pulp fiction using tropes that had been successful for decades instead of trying to reinvent the wheel - it would still be what I want. Its not just the story, its also the arcade style raiding or E-Sport aspect that doesnt fit for me
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You run a dungeon with 5 people. Do they all have to be warriors?
SoD is keeping me around for a bit longer, I had my fill of DF and was ‘done’ with it by Season Two.
I’m thankful both are on one subscription, so between raid-logging and occasional PvP in Ashenvale on SoD, I can pop into retail for pet battles or something else to pass the time.
Retail has it advantages, but the complexity of all the systems and the simplicity of how they operate is annoying.
Hard to understand? Imagine reading an entire text book with lots of verbage and terms only to get to the end and realize how redundant it is. The uniqueness in retail is gone. Everything is the same yet different just to be visually pleasing
None of them would get to be warriors. If trash is tuned in such a way that 1 minute CC is required to be spammed, there is no room for group members that don’t have CC. So, it’d be hunter, mage, monk, DH maybe, warlock maybe, and who knows for the last, depends on the mob types.
If you -don’t- tune the trash to require CC, then everyone just zergs it, waits for herolust to come off cooldown, and then every dungeon becomes a 5 man mini-raid. And, if you wanna raid…there is a game mode entirely devoted to raiding, it’s called raid.
And yet somehow that wasn’t the case.