Plenty of people are testing and have tested ret… plenty are calling it trash including the pros that actually know what they’re talking about. Good for you that you can still do good in games but that doesn’t change they fd ret over.
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I think the changes to ret burst are healthy for the game, and they’ve added a lot of buffs to try and compensate:
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Divine Protection now reduces damage by 30% while in PvP combat (was 20%).
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Flash of Light healing increased by 15% in PvP combat.
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Healing Hands now 70% effective in PvP combat (was 50%).
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Templar’s Verdict damage increased by 10% in PvP combat.
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Final Verdict damage increased by 10% in PvP combat.
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Exorcism damage increased by 80% in PvP combat.
However I think that the buff to final/templars verdict should be 20-25% and then that would put ret in an OK spot. Nobody likes ret being a 1 shot machine, not even ret players (I mean actual ret players, not FOTM rerollers.) My favorite version of ret was end of BFA, because even though you didn’t do much damage without wings, you had like 50% uptime on your wings because of vision of perfection and hammer of reckoning, and the other 50% of the time you had a ton of utility to stall games and wait for your burst (blessing of sanctuary, blessing of sacrifice, bops, big offheals, unbound freedom, auras).
Ret should be a high utility support class with good damage during wings, and good support outside of wings, but it doesn’t need these ridiculous one shots, and wings should have frequent uptime rather than only 20 seconds per 2 mins.
3 Likes
Just because vanguards complains his spec is bad doesn’t mean it is. I’m just assuming that’s who your talking about when talking about “pros”.
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Divine protection should be in the general paladin tree, not in the spec talent tree.
It really is about time they do this.
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He is one of them but he’s not the only top ret that exists and not the only one to voice his opinion but you can be nit picky if you want. Ret is horrid right now wether you believe it is or not I don’t really care. Everyone is voicing their opinion so far you seem to b the only one with this thought process. G bye
8 Likes
So here let me explain why it feels good right now. The templars/ fv buffs gives us a lot more consistent damage. With these changes + tier FV is hitting for 30% more damage than what we’ve been experiencing beforehand. We have a lot more pressure outside of our goes. It also makes it so whenever we get a wake proc we end up getting a ton of damage from wake into fv. Our goes themselves are a lot less explosive, but in a much healthier way. You can still hold 70k dps during wings easily. Also stun goes outside of wings feels way more impactful and can actually be threatening now. The wog changes also helps our survivability immensely. Anyone who thinks it doesn’t is lying. Also weirdly enough crusader strike feels like a real button now. I’ve hit them for up to 40k. It feels especially good for killing totems.
Also the conc build into certain mathups feels really strong. During goes conc hits between 3-5k with 2 up it’ll proc 16 times during a stun. So between 50-90k damage not including things like incandescence just passively.
Exorcism I feel like was a major miss and other than into certain matchups it’s a complete bait to take right now. If it generated holy power it would be a good button, but since it doesn’t it’s trash.
The only big problems in the changes was the nerf to lawbringer and reckoning. Lawbringer is now completely useless, because even though the patch notes said they were only nerfing it to 8% from 10% of max health, they instead changed it to 5% which is super weird. Luminescence is just better than it in 99% of situations now.
The reckoning nerf however doesn’t feel terrible most of the time. You generally still get enough stacks to proc a wings at about 1 minute for your big final reck go, but outside of that unless your playing into dot comps/ pet comps your not getting it up anytime soon. However I think that’s a good thing. I think the ability needs a complete redesign, or at least make it similar to hpallys. Tying the wings proc to a specific ability rather than auto attack would make it a lot more versatile. It’s how the ability was originally designed back in legion so it would be cool if they changed it back.
Overall I think the ret changes are going in a good route. It’s definitely not S tier, but it’s not terrible either. It won’t be able to play with every single spec in the game like it could pre nerf, since pairing 1 shot burst with anything could work, but the comps it does well in I feel like it does just as well as it did before if not potentially better.
Now can you explain why it’s horrid right now?
3 Likes
Paladin worst class in the game now. Yes/no?
No it isn’t.
It’s 10%.
Mine were 22k baseline and now 24K that’s 10%. If you had 4 set it’s still the same 10% buff. They didn’t stack TV and FV buffs.
I was seeing crits for around 38k during CDs prior to this buff with the same talents for CS. Unless they start critting for over 50K inside CDs the buff didn’t go through. A +30% to +80% modifier for PvP is is a 38% increase. I’ve yet to see it, my non crits are hitting for the exact amount they did last week, I’m not convinced this change made it into the game.
What talents are you running? After buff mine does ~20k over 12 seconds that’s 10k damage in a kidney, 20k with two. How are you getting 2.5 to 4X+ that damage?
As bad as exorcism is, it adds more sustain damage than the Final Verdict buff if you take it.
4 Likes
This happens almost every expansion. People are low ratings can’t deal with Ret burst early on (which is fair, it’s usually very strong). But at higher ratings the burst becomes relatively easy to counter and once its down, the Ret is the main target because they die once bubble is down.
The burst nerf would have been fine if Blizzard buffed sustained, mobility and survivability to a strong place. Instead of doing that, they literally nerfed Lawbringer to 5% (it was supposed to be 8%, down from 10%).
I’m not sure what they’re doing. There were 2 Ret Paladins in the top 100 in 3’s before the nerfs. Should all Ret Paladins not play this game Blizzard?
14 Likes
That is indeed and oopsy on my part. But it’s still technically 20% because most people are testing pre 4 set. It’s hitting decently hard right now too averaging between 30-40k in every game. Maxing at well over 100k.
Are you using any crusader strike talents right now? Because pre patch the biggest I saw was 30k and since then I’ve seen up to 40k. Btw this isn’t testing on training dummies this is acc arena so your numbers may be higher since dummies take more damage.
hallowed ground + sanctify gets me those numbers. Also the paladin I was testing on has 50% mastery base in pvp combat.
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Every time some ppl gets one shoted by a rets they complain and then rets recibe a massives nerfs mainwhile some other there are always under radar. Rets needed a tuning in radian D but why nefs also the mini wings the only thing that helps rets do damage in a 2 min burst cd, this is complety unfair, rets its not good in anything now, he has bad defensives, no mobility, low healings and no damage, so the best i just delete the spect cause its feels complety usseless
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Yes I ran them for a whole bunch of solos, that’s where they topped out at. That’s where that number comes from. So far haven’t topped that. I’ll keep checking my meter.
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That might be why, the only crusader strike talent I run is improved crusader strike.
People cry because radiant decree can’t hit for 200k anymore? Even if it hit for 100k it would still be okay.
What do you want? Global people from 60% to 0 or your class is trash?
At least you have a stun. I wish mage had a stun and was not just a sheep bot, hard cast DMG spam and had an actual PvP kit like Spriest.
Our overall/sustain damage got dumpsterd as well.
Sadly this is kind of the truth.
Wish it was different.
With that gone (we get it) our sustain needed to be higher but it’s actually a lot lower now as well.
Imagine when they nurfed glacial spike they nurfed ice lance by 20%+ at the same time. While telling you they were buffing sustain damage to offset the glacial spike nurf…
we are adjusting their burst capability downward while bringing up some of their sustain damage, to have a healthier playstyle.
They just nurfed everything really. Overall damage output is down significantly. Much more than the damage lost in 1-2 minute CD windows.
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Please never comment on pvp balance until you at least hit 2200 in any bracket of arena. Being a Mage and complaining about HoJ is hilarious.
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Solo shuffle ego getting wild
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Rets are still doing insane damage. Lol
Enhance is actually decent rn.
As for rets they need to keep the decree and final reckoning nerf while reverting the lawbringer and aura of reckoning nerf completely and the class will feel good again.
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Iv played ret for longer than id care to admit. Decades, and like most of the guys, here I wouldn’t complain about the nerfs, if they had actually done anything they said they were going to do to balance them out . They did not do anything they claimed to do for the class. The 10 percent buff to a talent no one uses in pvp. Most ret Pallies take vengeance not protection, so that buff was totally pointless, it did nothing to buff up a pvp talent that almost no one uses. our damage is down in burst and sustained. The burst nerf, I totally get why, that was necessary, but the counter balances, they say they gave us, are total lies, we are just as squishy as we were, and our damage is down across the board, they have once again broken Ret pally to the point of, not being able to find any decent partners or groups for rated pvp. It amazes me how they just seem to not even test anything they change in actual play. Do they not bother to look and see the talent they are buffing to give us survivability, is a talent not often used by anyone. How can the people, who are responsible, for making changes to the classes, not know something that any player pretty much would have known. If blizzard would actually do a better job of doing what they claim to do, and testing changes in actually play not just in theoretical play. This game would keep a lot more players, and the players here would be much happier. They so over shot the mark with these changes, Once again, they have made the spec one of the unwelcome classes in Rated Content.
15 Likes