yet you dispute Seal Twisting…
i’m merely telling Boomsky that Enrage was specifically allowed to use /sit during TBC
But that doesn’t mean it was intended. If it were intended, they would have included that in 2.0.1 with all the other “on hit” stuff right? But they waited til 2.3 where they finally decided to make all of the “on crit” stuff to proc. That sounds like it wasn’t intended but they decided later that it was a “creative use of game mechanics” that they decided to keep.
Nope, I’m saying that it was only working through abusing server latency and thus was exploiting the servers back then. Do you really think it isn’t exploiting the game as long as people aren’t banned for it?
There we go, it wasn’t supposed to be doable during Vanilla. /thread
Seal Twisting was never intended but it was always in the game since 1.11 when they added the 0.5 second delay to Seal of Command.
lol stop being bad - it’s not an exploit - no one got banned EVER for either mashing their X button to gain Reck charges or for Seal Twisting
it was the reason Alliance Paladins got Seal of Blood/Martyr in LK and Seal of Command was changed to a cleave attack
if blizzard considered seal twisting to be abuse, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A HUGEEEEEEEEEE BLUE STICKY POST TELLING EVERYONE NOT TO DO IT!!!
Thanks for confirming what I was wondering.
Just because someone didn’t get banned for it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t an exploit. Reckoning was changed at least twice to stop it from being abused.
1 Like
the Kazzak bomb was quite literally working as the Reckoning talent was intended - blizzard nerfed it to prevent outdoor raid boss fights to be a joke
that is not the same as using an exploit - the guild that hacked the game files to remove the floor in front of Skeram to drop down into C’thun’s room now that was an exploit
Kevin Jordan specifically said in his interview with Countdown to Classic that he was impressed when players found alternatives to use mechanics in ways he never imagined.
TLDR - Blizzard during early WoW had no way to get rid of server lag, so instead of banning players for using mechanics in this fashion, they just changed the spells or gave them to both factions
Imagine arguing what the word exploit means because its definition doesn’t line up with your extremely simplistic world views.
Warriors using the extra talent point to have Death Wish+MS was exploiting a bug, I doubt people got banned for it either.
Intended? It was nerfed right after that.
And saying it wasn’t an exploit because it doesn’t fit your definition is a fallacious argument. They were exploiting server lag to get it to proc in ways that wouldn’t work normally.
Just because Kevin was impressed with alternatives doesn’t mean that people weren’t exploiting stuff.
2 Likes
intended = no limit to reck charges
that was the way the talent was designed - you can’t fault players for using the tools in their toolbox in the way in which they are designed
sure Reckoning got hotfixed within 24 hours BUT the Paladin who 1shot Kazzak was never banned for doing it
BIG DIFFERENCE - just like the Mage in LK Naxx who could steal Bone Shield and solo Razuvious - Bone Shield got hotfixed just like Reckoning but the Mage never got banned for it
and using server lag is EXACTLY how Seal Twisting was used by every single Blood Elf Ret Paladin during TBC…
Intended implies that they knew someone could achieve endless stacks. I’m not saying to fault them for it, I’m saying it was exploiting server lag. I’m not saying all exploits result in bans, i’m saying they’re not how the game was programmed. Just because people were using it doesn’t mean that it was intended, doesn’t mean they would be banned for it, and doesn’t mean that blizzard wouldn’t go and do something about it.
look don’t take my word for it - listen to Kevin Jordan himself - he actually encouraged players to “break the game” and was impressed when they did:
https://countdowntoclassic.com/2018/10/04/episode-73-ex-wow-designer-kevin-jordan-on-classes-abilities-classic/
What does that have to do with it being an exploit or not?
Any good programmer worth their salt will tell you they want people to break the game because it tells them what they need to fix. It also tells them ways they could change the way the program works.
1 Like
because creative use of game mechanics (ie: using a spell/talent in literally the way it was originally laid out) is not an exploit - if it needs to be hotfixed and the design intent changed then so be it - but it is not the same as hacking into the game and using illegal means to beat a boss - that would require a permanent ban but Seal Twisting and the Kazzak bomb did not
otherwise as I said before, Blizzard would have had a huge sticky post in the Paladin forums saying, “DO NOT EVEN TRY TO SEAL TWIST GUYS!!!”
1 Like
Again, you’re using a fallacious argument about the definition of exploit.
Creative use of game mechanics issues were game exploits that blizz decided to either keep in the design or just allow to happen. It was still exploiting unintentional mechanics but blizz decided not to punish others over.
i mean cmon even if they knew they couldnt fix server lag to remove seal twisting, literally ALL THEY HAD TO DO was put up a sticky post and tell Blood Elf Paladins not to do it
jeez you guys get real cmon
and now you know why Alliance Paladins were so angry during the entire TBC xpac…
again, get over yourself - it’s not an exploit if nothing was changed or no one got banned
THAT IS THE CRITICAL DIFFERENCE
And again, you’re using a fallacious argument over the definition of exploit.
1 Like