Ret paladin viability

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1271

I think one thing that people are ignoring is that if you don’t have enough paladins in your raid to cover all of the blessings/auras, bringing a ret paladin would add that additional buff/aura.

Also I’d like to point out that a Classic Youtuber did a video on the top 20~ DPS for each class in BWL patch on private servers, now I know that the data isn’t 100%, but I’d imagine it is pretty close to what we will see.

Here are the top DPS for each class:

Druid - 563
Hunter - 530
Mage - 592
Rogue - 690
Warlock - 637
Warrior - 907

Those prior numbers were the TOP parse. However the average is much lower than those.

So you’re saying, that druid player at 563 DPS wouldn’t be allowed in groups even though he performs better than nearly every class average.

This comes down to bring the player not the class. Which is true in Classic. You could be playing a fury warrior, but just raidlog. Whereas that ret player could be doing everything they can possibly do the squeeze out every digit of DPS.

There are ret paladins who raided and cleared content in Naxx in 2006. Being a “meme” spec didn’t stop them then and it won’t stop them now.

I think the main point that needs to be stressed is this. Ret paladin/ Balance Druid/ Elemental shaman…whatever class you want to play in a way that isn’t “approved” by the community is totally doable. Why? Because, despite what people on this forum like to think, not everyone is going to be clearing Naxx.

Everyone keeps saying on here, oh well I won’t invite a ret paladin. Yeah, but are you going to be in bleeding edge content? Are you going to be clocking 16+ hours a day on this game? No? So, while you’re still running around trying to get your pre-raid gear, that “meme spec” no lifer already did that. They’re on the farming consumables, which you cannot do, since you’re farming pre-raid.

Then Molten Core comes out. And they come in stacked with pre-raid best in slot, they come in stacked with consumables and then while you make fun of them for playing a bad spec, they’re doing better than you on the meters because they have better gear than you.

Everyone always laughs at the ret paladin or the balance druid until they get outperformed by one. Ret paladins may not be “optimal” but they are certainly “viable” if you put in the time to the character.

1 Like
1272

or you can just farm gold and buy the Nightfall;
this axe does not require ret paladin;

by helping others, you (maybe ) will achieve the place of guild mascot of your “non bleeding edge” guild,
when your spec does not matter and you will be accepted,
and you will be carried;

but
you refuse to set your talents points in right way and take a right gear;
you want to go with useless talents and gear ;
you know that you bring only disadvantages for your raid.
are you happy in raids with this knowledge?
isn’t that selfish?

1273

I never stated that Nightfall required ret paladin. The axe does require exalted with the thorium brotherhood and then some pretty pricy mats. When Classic launches, who exactly are you going to be buying that axe from? No one has the recipe. What I said in my post was that if that meme spec player, just busted their butt and got the recipe and then the axe through farming/buying the mats, you’d be inclined to take that player since they may be one of the first to get the axe.

Also, let’s look at the axe itself. THis is a thottbot comment from 2006, patch 1.12 " The mats itself cost 1200-2000g, but it is hard to find someone to make it". - This can be found on the ClassicWoWhead website.

2000 gold for the item. 2000 gold in classic was ALOT of money. Especially at the start of a server. Dire maul east is like 50 gold an hour. That’s 24 hours of farming at best. But say someone gets that axe or most of it by themselves? Saves the guild money that they can spend on other things.

I’ll be interested when Classic comes out. So many people on the forums keep casting doubt, yet the average player who comes home from their 9-5 job and after spending time doing whatever else and logs onto World of Warcraft Classic to raid isn’t going to be able to compete with that meme spec player who has been playing WoW while they were at their job. That’s just fact. Thats why so many people complain about Classic, because of the time that was required.

So yes, many people will be complaining about ret paladins, saying they’re trash. But then complain when that ret paladin in ironforge has way better gear then them, does way more DPS then them, because they cannot compete with the time investment that player has put forth.

1274

The reverse is selfish too…

1 Like
1275

Nightfall is a really one of the best pre-raid weapons anyway.

1276

The way I’ve always viewed this argument is like this. You’re gimping a Warriors DPS by making them use Nightfall, either by making a Fury fight 2h or bringing an Arms that then can’t MS. Why gimp a Warrior, and ruin their fun, when you can just bring a Ret and get all the added utility of having an extra Paladin?

1 Like
1277

I was fortunate enough during my tenure on my Paladin that when I was asked to DPS, they wanted me to go as hard as possible. Our off-tanks all rolled with Nightfall and Annihilator. Sometimes you get lucky and get to DPS to your heart’s content.

But most guilds will not see a Ret as anything besides a janitor whose job it is to clean the floor of dead bodies and keep that debuff up.

1 Like
1278

Hell, I’ll take this over the “Rets aren’t allowed to Raid” mentality that’s going around. At least Nightfall guy has a raid spot.

2 Likes
1279

To be fair generally you would bring a Hunter as the dedicated Nightfall user, and have your off-tank using it while they aren’t actively tanking along with keeping Annihilator up.

You give up some Hunter DPS, but it’s not like they were topping meters in the first place.

Though a Ret also works. Hunter is just a bit better for Nightfall up time.

1 Like
1280

May be a bit better for uptime, but you end up with a hunter probably pulling around a third the dps they could be pulling even going DW melee. You get better returns having the pally do it imo. The pally can even cleanse at the same time.

2 Likes
1281

So damn true, because you know that paladin is prepared where the fury warrior could likely wipe the raid due to his lack of actual research; solely banking on his class / build to carry him.

The inverse is true for the retribution paladin, he knows going in that his build is not the best and because of this works extra hard to be a valuable raid member.

1282

My guild on northdale brings a ret pally, a boomkin, shadow priest and a cat for both bwl and aq (haven’t done naxx yet). And we do just fine on bosses because were all geared, bring consumables, enchanted, and knows how the fights work

Good hardworking players that follows mechanics > dps

4 Likes
1283

It’s only arguably better if you’re going to bring both the Ret Paladin and the Hunter anyway.

Ultimately you’re better off having a Hunter do Nightfall and simply not having a Ret Paladin. It’s not that the Ret Paladin is a bad choice for Nightfall, but much like virtually everything the spec can do: It’s not the optimal choice for doing it.

People want to try to argue all these justifications for a Ret Paladin in a more optimized raid but the reality is that there isn’t one.

The only reason to bring a Ret Paladin is because you don’t care that it’s not optimal(and Vanilla raiding wont punish you for this), and because you like the player.

1284

And that’s why I’ll take the ret. If they’re willing to put in the work for their spot then they’re welcome to it. Anything else they bring is just an added bonus.

1285

The problem is, in many cases and this will be especially the case in Vanilla, you don’t have a choice of having a 100% optimal raid, especially when it comes to Naxx.

In HamsterWheels WoW video, he stated that across 179 US servers, there was ~895,000 level 60 characters. That’s around 5,000 per server. And let’s just assume 2,500 per faction.

So you have a playerpool of 2,500 people to get your 40 man raid team. So .016% of the server population is going to be in your naxx guild.

Hamsterwheel also had data that said only 900 guilds killed the first boss of Naxx. So 45,000 players (900*50), give or take killed only the first boss. So now you have 45,000/179 servers and you have ~251 players per server who kill the first boss of Naxx. So if you want to do it on Alliance, you have 125 players, on average, who will kill the first boss. Now you’re down to .05% of your faction.

Hamsterwheel said 23 guilds killed all the bosses. He estimated 1,000 players US killed all of Naxx. 1000/895,000 = 0.001% of the entire player base.

1000 players spread across 179 realms is about 5 players per realm. So some realms never even cleared Naxx on their server.

So it’s not about ret paladins being optimal. It’s really not. It’s about you finding 39 other people who are insane enough to try and push to a place where only 0.001% of the 2006 WoW population was.

Sure the instance will be easier compared to mythic raids. But farming for things won’t be. Preparing for hours before won’t be easier. Still requires time investment.

At the end of the day if some Ret paladin is one of the few players who is willing to dump that much time into the game. You’re not going to have very many other players to pick from. It’s like in gym class. That ret paladin will be the last kid standing against the wall. It doesn’t matter if he sucks at dodgeball. He’s literally all you have to pick from.

1286

I’ve made the argument that you wont be able to have an optimal guild in most cases myself.

Though a lot of people still want to act like Ret Paladins might be desirable in raids striving for a more optimal setup, usually because of Nightfall.

That’s just not the case.

1287

If we’re going to get on the optimal bandwagon though, the only thing you need to be optimal is to have your buffs, debuffs, tanks, and healers all there.
Once you’ve filled in that stuff then everything else is generally extra.

1 Like
1288

1 raid slot won’t allow for a good time to be had by the majority of people who roll ret naturally without foreknowledge of what is coming.

1289

Like a PvE Arms Warrior without Mortal Strike swinging Nightfall?

lulz

1290

I hear because the first olympic race has already been completed we might as well never have another olympic race.

1 Like