Seal of Righteousness;
ret paladin with Nightfall should use SoR, not SotC;
SoR swing is like double proc chance and JoR hit should trigger another chance;
sorry, but all this seems to be not enough to justify the presence of ret (just look at the raid logs)
Yeah but would feel bad if I wasn’t doing everything I could to help.
Wouldn’t that be seal of command since it’s a weapon dmg version of SoR?
And looking at raid logs, shows that rets can be brought because DPS is not lacking in any way so long as people actually dps rather than sitting on their hands or dying right off the bat to mechanics.
He was, he was healing. You don’t need to min-max that bad unless you’re in the top 1%. He knew what he was doing, he had good enough gear, and he did it when we asked. That sounds like everything he could do to help.
If I remember right SoComm doesn’t proc effects, but in either case it doesn’t proc on every swing.
Seal of Righteousness is on every hit, always giving you 2 chances to proc Nightfall. Since your personal DPS with the weapon will be pretty terrible, you might as well maximize the proc’s up time.
If your raid is going to use it you’ll probably want a Hunter spamming rank 1 Wing Clip, and then either a Ret Paladin/Enh Shaman or a Warrior off-tank. Often a Warrior off-tank will both help keep Nightfall and Annihilator(-200 armour, stacking 3 times) procs on the target.
I actually had to look into this and I’m amazed I had no idea lol apparently it’s bugged on a lot of private servers or just flat out isn’t intended on private servers to work this way. It was changed in 1.9 to work this way if anyone was wondering.
But instead of increasing your chance to hit and proc nightfall by 40% with sotc you flat out get two chances per swing to proc crusader, nightfall etc. that is a pretty big increase. Just more stuff private servers got wrong.
-Sinclaire -Torch-
yes, SoR attack makes 2 separate melee attacks:
1 normal melee wep hit and 1 melee hit with full holy dmg, which was 100% to land chance if first hit lands successful;
both of them have separate chance to proc any _onHit effect;
that is exactly how it should work;
it works correctly at least on elysium/northdale;
double SoR proc was nerfed fast in TBC
Nighfall have a bad(fast) swing time so SoComm chance is lower (
yes SoComm should trigers this too; but SoR is better for max procs;
Two words and the entire debate is reignited. The ret paladin is a powerful creature indeed.
Lmao this has to be one of the biggest threads currently on the forums, crazy!
-Sinclaire -Torch-
Here is a clue. This entire monster sized thread is “debating” the viability of ret paladins. Notice you will NEVER see a thread on the viability of mages, rogues, warriors, warlocks, hunters, resto druids, holy paladins, holy/disc priests or resto shamans.
If that does not answer everything you need to know then you are beyond help.
Hmm, I’ll have to agree with you. If people actually knew the definition of words instead of superimposing another on top of it using implication there would be no debate whatsoever. Using a word that actually means the meaning that was trying to come across would leave very little room for misunderstanding. However, dictionary .com or google is too hard to use for many online gamers apparantly.
To be fair even if everybody used the actual definition of viable, we’d just be having arguments about “Ret is garbage and shouldn’t be brought because their DPS Is too low compared to real DPS”.
The semantics of viable vs competitive don’t actually matter a whole lot to the points both sides are making.
Once the confusion is cleared up it’s really obvious what the answer is, isn’t it.
You have this argument which redirects the attention away from from all the other variables and truths. It’s a common political tactic to focus attention on a detail with implied importance. What is more important to a raid: a warrior or a paladin? Is that question answerable with an answer that is truthful in all scenarios? It’s the same thing with fury warrior and ret paladin.
Even if you don’t argue semantics you are still left with a question too vague to have a definitive answer. So, why not leave it up to semantics? It’s the only way to get a definitive answer to the question “Is ret viable for end game raiding?”
It’s been mentioned already, but a Ret paladin that uses ALL of his classes abilities(spot heals, cleansing, BoP, Freedom, keeping blessings up, timely lay hands, bringing potions, etc) will be welcome in non bleeding edge raid groups.
The Ret paladins that will not be welcome are the ones that do absolutely nothing but auto attack with Seal of Command while literally ignoring everything else.
At first it hurt my head reading your analysis but as I sobered up it actually made a lot of sense. ![:smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smile.png?v=6" ":smile:")
You are in raids for auras
Oh yes indeed
And nightfall, extra bop, blessing coverage, an extra lay on hands. Marginal dps, oh and yes auras. lol that’s about it.
-Sinclaire -Torch-
How about…
Just having fun playing he game being viable reasoning?
As for flawless execution and meaningful purpose in a hardcore raid…
You need to devote a tremendous amount of time/effort (tryhard) to accomplish this.
If that is what your seeking (truly) then go for it! You will be surprised what you find in means of support. (People follow those who are confident)
Beware and squelch the naysayers
Semantics wont get you anywhere because in my experience people will just change their wording.
Okay so the people who are anti-Ret will stop saying “it’s not viable” and start saying “You’re better off just bringing a real DPS”. That neither ends nor furthers the debate because we’re still where we started: People wondering if there is a good reason to bring Ret Paladins, or if they play a Ret Paladin how well accepted will they be in the raiding scene?
Which is what most of the people who make these threads are wondering, not about if Ret meets the bare minimum requirement to be technically considered viable. Even this thread the OP stated they were aware of the whole “viable yes, optimal no” thing but were wondering about the justification of bringing one when they believed that other classes did what they could do better.
Focusing on the semantics of “is Ret viable?” may get you a definitive answer to that question, but it wont be useful information for the people in these threads.
Pretty much anybody paying the slightest amount of attention should be aware that you can physically clear raids with a single Ret Paladin in Vanilla. Even most of the anti-ret people have admitted this because you can clear raids with 39 people and 1 corpse even.