Nah, Ret’s great, attested even. There’s a Ret Paladin posting in this thread who raided Naxx from progression to farm. My guild raided Naxx progression with a Ret too. In Classic, we’ll have a Ret spot as well.
100% unsubstantiated crap
2 Likes
Somebody already linked at the beginning of the thread a video of Death & Taxes downing Nefarian, with a Ret Paladin in their raid.
Which they were one of the top guilds in the world in Vanilla.
and they used a Ret Paladin, despite many people here claiming it’s a garbage thing to do that no top guild would ever consider.
1 Like
lmao so a Ret with a legendary weapon, virtually impossible to attain unless you no life the game, gets a spot in a raid. Dollars to donuts he did less dps than the pures, who didn’t have a legendary weapon.
Classic isn’t going to be like Vanilla circa 2005. People back then played very, very differently. Nowadays everyone can easily minmax whatever they want because of the decade of knowledge freely available. There’s even a dude who’s youtube channel is “the ret dream” or something, where he’s in full epics and hand of rag doing AQ40 and still gets creamed by pures in a mix of blues and purples.
Linking one video from retail vanilla doesn’t prove anything. ‘Overgeared Holy Paladin is allowed to dps on final boss of BWL’ is what it is.
2 Likes
There are a number of weapons better than Sulfuras for sustained DPS. Having it isn’t some magical thing that makes you far better than you’d be otherwise.
Yeah they were only one of the top guilds in the world. What do they know? People apparently didn’t understand things like theorycrafting and min/maxing in 2004.
Nobody has claimed Ret will top meters, but clearly even top guilds pushing world firsts saw that they weren’t completely worthless.
It’s more than the “Rets weren’t taken in Vanilla! Trust me, i’m right because I said so” that anti-ret people post.
1 Like
By all means keep encouraging the idea that the spec is in anyway shape or form viable in a raiding environment and that guilds will even consider giving them a spot. Keep giving false hope to players that will inevitably need to respec Holy at endgame or reroll entirely. More healbots for my Arms Warrior
And it’s posts like this that will ensure that the warriors in my guild get ashkandi last.
1 Like
It’s a Hunter weapon obviously.
Any serious Warrior wouldn’t touch your guild, even if you payed them gold. So good luck with that.
If they have an attitude like yours I’d happily not have them. Everyone knows that the top guilds will take you.
5 Likes
You have that logic backwards. You don’t NEED to min/max or whatever because you have enough experience to do anything sub optimally.
A pro league pool player doesn’t bring his A game to kiddo summer camp.
1 Like
MMO’s encourage and reward minmaxing whether you like it or not. Not everyone has the desire to do it, but the game works against you if you don’t.
4 Likes
Wow doesn’t encourage min/max. From release that has always been a player thing, not a developer thing.
1 Like
Want to rank? Need to minmax your comp and gear. Want to clear raids? Need to minmax your comp and gear (or be carried by said minmaxers).
Please make it stop…
2 Likes
Man, did you even play vanilla? Do you even know what WoW is? Did you ever listen to a single developer of WoW in an interview?
It has never “needed” anything other than the classic dungeon roles of “tank”, “damage”, “heal”. That’s it!
Outside of that, those roles could be played by any class that had a supporting talent tree.
This was on purpose. That’s why warriors can both dps and tank. That why paladins, shaman, and druids were all intended to do all three roles.
It was unimaginative neckbeards waving their scientific calculators that demanded pegging certain class restrictions in those roles as well as tier gear.
That’s why there is no tier warrior set for dps. Good job eliminating a tier set for two of your talent trees forcing dps warriors to wear patchwork clown suits of gear so they could struggle to stay relevant with mages blowing the doors off dps meters.
1 Like
A lot of it was ignorance. Most of the dev teams first foray into the mainstream MMO genre and being inexperienced led to many things, chief among them being things like itemization. Warriors were intended to DPS simply because of how tanking worked ie you only needed 2-4 tanks out of a 40 man raid so what are the rest of the Warriors going to do if they can’t dps? Also it was a complete oversight regarding how rage worked and it was not intended for them to be beast dps, as rage was normalized after Vanilla.
It was from these oversights that players were able to create their ideal compositions and gear sets within the confines of the game. Players could get away with pigeonholing certain specs and classes into certain roles because if you weren’t prepared to conform, there’d be a whole line of people who would for that coveted raid spot in a good guild. Thus the whole “what do you bring to the raid” mentality started. Why bring a Ret over a Fury or Rogue? Well the pure can do their role a whole hell of a lot better than you can, and there’s plenty of them playing so there’s no shortage of people to fill spots. That’s why the only time you’d ever see a hybrid doing anything other than healing was when they had been fed gear nobody wanted/need whilst healing and then for a laugh (or because they outgeared the content and didn’t need the extra healer and couldn’t be bothered pugging a random) did some dps on a boss fight.
Talent trees weren’t designed the way you think they are and Paladins/other hybrids were never intended to do all 3 roles. The game very clearly demonstrates this the moment you step into any kind of challenging content. Remember, lead designers like Tigole and Furor were ex Everquest nerds and shaped things how they wanted. It wasn’t accidental.
Warriors don’t need a tier set for dps due to the abundance of plate dps available.
1 Like
Yup. Also, there is a thing called “DKP”, so Rets can spend it on DPS gear if Warriors don’t. If it’s all Loot Council then yeah the Rests will likely get 2nd pick on most everything but most guilds that will take a Ret in the first place likely won’t be using LC rules.
Just like all of your posts here from the looks of it.
1 Like
It’s not a coincidence that every person I talked to back in vanilla warned me not to roll a paladin because they were cloth wearers at 60 and spent more time buffing and healing than doing anything else.
But you know what. You believe what you want. Cherry pick a handful of examples out of the tens of thousands that say otherwise and make your plans based on that. See how that goes for you.
It was the same way for shamans, BTW. If you wanted to sit out of combat and rez the dead or spend your time spamming low ranked healing, then more power to you. But if you had dreams of DPS, you needed to get that right out of your head.
It’s a little ridiculous how long this gone on. To suggest that ret is viable is like pointing to, “Mugsy Bogues” as proof that 5’3" is a viable height in the NBA. It’s silly.
3 Likes
I can just turn around and say that on my server people didn’t mind having Ret Paladins around as DPSers.
How many videos do we have to post of top guilds doing it before it stops being dismissed as “cherry picking” or “we just didn’t know better back then”? At the very least we’ve provided a few examples. People against Ret have done nothing but say “I’m right because I said so. That’s how it was because I said it was that way”.
I don’t know much about basketball but it seems to me that people are trying to argue “Being 5’3” is a big disadvantage in the NBA, so you should never ever play any basketball game ever no matter what if you’re that short even if it’s not playing it at the top 1% of skill level".
Which I find just as silly =P
2 Likes