Like the topic says, its hard choosing to bring a Ret Paladin over other melee classes because we don’t provide much group benefit. Our damage is decent so far but that alone isn’t enough to get into groups. We need something so people WANT to take us with them, what that is I don’t know, yet. Hero, battle rez? I don’t know, but we need something.
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Blessing of Salvation might be a step in the right direction…
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Ret feels pretty decent in pve but is just always stigmatized as bad, idrk.
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I think pallys have lot of special tools, but the real issue is that the game doesn’t care about these types of tools.
When even healers are expected to dps, the idea of support utility and off-heals is almost laughable. That’s not to say pally’s can’t pull out some clutch moments, but in organized play you have less and less opportunity to do so because people are on their game. In PUGs you have more of a chance to shine in that way, but too many people see ‘the meta’ and think it pertains to them when it doesn’t.
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Classic Blessing of might but a 20min instead of 5min.
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They should rework retribution aura in a way that makes it have value at all times and not just when someone else screws up. Bringing back some sort of thorns effect like it used to have or maybe like 2% haste for anyone in the aura.
When there’s two paladins in the group the holy gets devo aura and the other paladin gets to spin the wheel of nearly useless auras. (I’m exaggerating, I know there are values to the other auras, but they’re niche and not that exciting. Given ret needs a perceptible by the community benefit they bring, I’d love to see it worked into an aura.)
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Our tools are all situational and don’t do anything unless you specifically need them. I also don’t think off healing should ever be a consideration for taking a DPS along, I like throwing out the emergency LoH but I do not want to be spamming WoG in order to be considered for a group. If I wanted to heal I would go Holy.
I feel like this working towards something like this persons idea would be good.
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aoe root, stun or snare would already be a better tool than bop, wog, sac.
Cause cc’ing mobs is always gonna have more value than throwing a wog
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Try being an Enhancement Shaman. At least you have wings on a short cd. There are groups that literally say Ele or Resto shaman only.
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This is about Retributions problems, not the Shaman forums.
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Really i didnt know that… Just wow yea just letting you know your not the only class with issues.
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That’s nice but how does that help my class, you also have another DPS spec you can play and plenty of tools that should get you invited to a group, your problems aren’t the same as Rets.
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There should be spec only auras that make it viable to take each spec, concentration aura should have been holy only, ret should get old sanctity aura from bc, and prot should get an improved devotion aura.
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Buff devo aura to at least 5% to bring it in line with other buffs. Rework the other auras because they are basically worthless and nobody cares about them. Bring back blessings but for all paladin specs. It will make ret more attractive if there is no prot or holy paladin in the group. They were iconic to the class since Vanilla. Actually confused why they got removed. Bring back Kings and Wisdom.
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There is nothing wrong with RET pallies or your “lack of utilities” that you think dont bring to the party. The real reason no body wants you in mythic+ is because DIVINE STORM lego when large mobs are pulled ret pallies have a large DMG increase when bursting you take aggro from tanks and get one shot because your dmg medigation to varies different elements are dog sh!t.
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The biggest thing working against Ret in general is the stigma that has generated over the years. Additionally, being a DPS in a DPS filled world doesn’t help one bit. This is hypothetical, but why would I take you, an ilvl 236 Ret over any other DPS that are applying with 241 ilvl provided they have the same M+ rating?
Ret has a surprising amount of utility in S2 over S1 when comparing Tormented to Prideful. You can BoP any of the bleeds during the Executioner, Freedom during Soggodan or Oros, and Sacrifice for all of them. Additionally, pretty much no DPS have a short CD external DR ability (Sacrifice), so that’s kind of a niche on its own.
Its true that divine storm being aoe capped at 5 is about the worst thing in m+.
But our utility is worthless if the group does everything well. If the healer is good you won’t need to wog people, if people avoid avoidable damage you won’t need to wog or sac them.
Our utility is for the groups that does badly. Aoe stunning adds, roots or snare will always have the same value as mobs cc is always gonna be requiring. Unlike our utility that for some dungeon i’m gonna wog twice, because the group is doing well.
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.25-.5% haste for every party or raid member in range, 1% damage for every dead party or raid member.
Ye I dnt see many rets either, I think Paladin as a class right now is like HOLY all the way. I see like 80% of all the paladins out there are holy. Prot is good damage wise but SUS survivability, ret is just mediocre but holy has it’s place in groups so they get invites. Even though I am a good player I get frequently declined as a prot paladin becuase my class isn’t meta.
Yep, this is basically what I ran into maining resto druid in M+ last tier: Resto druids are perfectly fine, even good for some situations! Which you can combine with the utility they bring (brez, typhoon, roots, decurse, vortex, roar) to make them a great pick!
But you’re already bringing a moonkin that already does all of that, so why bring the resto druid who is bringing nothing you don’t already have, when you could instead bring a holy paladin who brings new utility, nevermind the better DPS?
Same situation with ret paladins: They are fine, they bring great utility. But keys already have a holy paladin, so why bring a DPS with utility you already have when you could bring something different?
In some ways a lot of hybrid specs suffer from not being intrinsically bad, but not being as good as the meta spec for their class and simply not getting value from double-dipping.