Restitution gets punished on m+ timer

For whatever reason, whenever spirit of redemption expires (and you survive due to the Restitution talent), the m+ timer goes down and it counts as a death for this purpose. The reason this is weird is because this is only the case for the timer. You keep all buffs (food buff, rune, apotheosis etc) and you do not die in the combat data.

Not only is it strange in that way, it also makes deaths that much more punishing in a group wipe, since you can proc spirit → get revived with no choice → die, counting as 2 deaths. At least with shaman reincarnation you can just decline the reincarn and it won’t go on cooldown. I reported this as a bug, but just in case it is intended I went ahead and posted here too to explain why I think it shouldn’t count towards the timer.

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The talent clearly states that you are reviving, as in, you died and are coming back to life. That is a death just like reincarnation is a death.

You had a choice, you chose to take restitution.

Who is even going to take restitution over holy’s strongest single target defensive anyway.

Of course the person who makes stuff up for fun is also a tooltip truther. Just you wait until you find out how many tooltips are bad. Also I clearly state this:

In the event that it is actually working as intended. I explain why I think it shouldn’t work that way.

My bad, let me just untalent it instantly in combat as I realize a group-wipe is incoming.-- so that I only cheat-death in the situations I want it to happen. Brilliant. Holy crap your intelligence is astounding. I wish I was as smart as you.

Whoever wants to. Do you think talents never being chosen is a good thing or something ? That would still signify a problem (not that I agree that guardian angel is locked in anyway)

nods vigorously Yes, sometimes you have to make choices that you are locked into for a certain period of time. Those are usually called talents.

While simultaneously countering your own argument by bringing up the fact that rshams don’t get that benefit, and somehow trying to sell the idea that holy priest should get 3 free deaths over an average m+ run.

It should count towards timer though the same as shaman reincarnate. You still took lethal damage even if you have a way to get yourself up after. It also states that you’re reviving yourself in the tooltip so its a conditional personal battle raise, not avoiding death itself.

I dont see an issue with taking restitution. Like no its not the most optimal but its better for less experienced priests who may not be as comfortable with the mechanics. I’d rather a priest get themselves up while learning instead of the group wiping because the healer went down. I wouldn’t even bother considering wanting them to change till high keys.

There’s no problem with taking it, but the people who are taking it aren’t worried about shaving off a few seconds on a M+ timer.

That is flavor text. If youre gonna side with blizzard on this one then we should be losing buffs that go away on death and getting a death event too.

Some other tooltips that would need adjusting:
Purify/Improved Purify should say All dispellable magic [and disease) effects.

Guardian Spirit should say that the angel sacrifices itself and heals the target for 40% of their health or 200% of the casters health, whichever is smaller. It doesnt restore a target to 40% hp, this number gets reduced by things like mortal strike.

Divine hymn tooltip says it does reduced healing beyond 5 targets, but never mentions that pets are ignored for this nor does it mention full hp targets.

Gales of song claims to give pom stacks every 1 second (with no haste) when channeling divine hymn, but in reality it just gives the pom stacks every tick, which is instantly and then every 1.25s after (with 0 haste).

Angelic touch says it makes heals do 220% crit effect instead of 200%. But things like tauren racial and pvp mod affects both of these numbers. In reality it just increases the effectiveness of crits by 10%.

Trail of light mentions it heals your previous flash heal target, but never mentions that it doesnt include your current target in that. If you heal the same person twice in a row, the trail heals the same person twice in a row as well.

Ultimate Serenity claims it heals 4 additional targets for 15% of serenitys healing done, but what it actually does is proc a separate heal effect called ultimate serenity that has a coefficient of ~13% of serenity. This means casting guardian spirit on someone and then using serenity on them does not increase the heal of ultimate serenity’s cleave. This cleave also rolls its own crit chance and its own spell variance. Tldr: has nothing to do with serenitys healing done.

Pre-emptive care claims to increase the duration of renew by 40%. It does do this for Lights Resurgence renews, but for Lasting Words renews it actually only increases their duration by 25%.

Waste No Time reduces the base cooldown of prayer of mending by 1.5s. Not its cooldown as it suggests. Completely overlooks that the spell has a hasted cooldown.

Piety claims that 15% overhealing done gets redistributed, but not all overhealing actually does. For example, piety overhealing doesnt feed back into piety even though tooltip suggests it does.

Unfolding vision makes expiring poms lose 2 stacks and jumps to a new player instead of vanishing altogether. Say your prayers says pom has a chance to not consume a charge when jumping to a new player. Yet these talents do not interact.

Body and soul says that pom and leap of faith increases movespeed by 3s. But what they really mean is that poms from twinsight, initial cast of pom, and poms generated by Gales of song increase your movement speed. No matter how you interpret the tooltip theres an exception.

Apotheosis says it resets the cooldown of your holy words, but what it actually does is give cooldown reduction equal to the cooldown of each of your holy words. This means you only regenerate 1 charge if you have miracle worker talented.

Unwavering Will doesnt just reduce cast time, it reduces gcd too even when surge of light is instant cast. This isnt true of other cast time reductions like Focused Outburst

Angelic Bulwark just completely ignores its tooltip. I have absolutely no idea what triggers its effect, but I can tell you it is not when youre brought below 30% hp like it says. Sometimes itll trigger at 70% hp, sometimes youll be at 20% hp and it won’t trigger.

Resurrection and Mass Ressurection say they cannot be cast in combat. And while its true that neither can start their cast in combat-- resurrection can actually finish its cast in combat as long as you dont take any damage. Mass rez cannot.

Haste buffs in general that increase your haste% do so multiplicatively. The other stats do so additively. For priest this means power infusion actually increases haste by a factor of 1.2. If you have 50% haste, pi would bump that to 80% not 70%.

You get the idea, tooltips cannot be used as proof of intention or design for anything. It is and will always be flavor text. Are some of the above actually just bugs and not intended? Probably. But spirit of redemption/restitution absolutely belongs with the rest of the list considering its behavior tries to play both sides of death simultaneously.

Also that list is not exhaustive, there are many more examples of this, including from specs that arent holy priest.

Also two can play that game anyway, if you read Spirit of Redemption tooltip, it says ““when the effect ends you die.”” But the death timer gets triggered when you enter spirit not when it expires. If you die to enter spirit and you also die when you exit spirit why doesnt it trigger the death twice every time? Shouldnt restitution then cost 3 deaths if you die to enter spirit, die when spirit expires revive from restitution (with no option to decline btw) and then die again from the party wipe?

Yes tooltips can be inconsistent with the implementation, no that doesn’t mean that tooltip should be ignored and we should interpret every tooltip with 0 critical thinking. Restitution is functionally a battle rez/ankh designed to shore up a spec deigned for beginners that might die a lot. Giving it m+ timer protection would be unfair when balanced across other such abilities and would make it a weird choice node with holy’s best ST CD.

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I feel like we’re comparing apples to oranges here. Yes, there are tooltips that aren’t 100% accurate even when they should be, but we can’t just discredit the words of another tooltip entirely as flavor text just because of that. Functionally it is still in line with its tooltips description.

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Well no, half the point is it is not functionally in line with the tooltip’s description. That’s the thing. If it counted as a death for every purpose then whatever, it would just be clearly intended behavior even if I don’t like it.

The other half of the point is tooltips are unreliable. You cannot use the words of tooltips as a source for anything because it does not reflect, with any sort of accuracy, what a spell is supposed to do. Like I said, if you were a tooltip truther then Spirit of Redemption should actually count as 2 deaths not one. Using the tooltip as evidence is silly, it doesn’t hold up for rest of the game.

There is no real way to judge whether something is working as intended or not unless blizzard specifically states the intended behavior. The best we can do is look for inconsistencies. Spirit of Redemption is considered not-a-death by some things and a death by others. That objectively makes no sense. It is either a death, or it isn’t, pick one.